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**One Truth** » 2013-03-16 17:52

Mill Reef Club below mentions projected income figures from GOAB from CIP of $360M - someone else did back-of-the-env elope math on that in a Comment on this site, suggesting that would require maybe 1500 to 3000 properties to be bought by CIP clients in the next 3 years - anyone see any pigs flying?

**Mill Reef Club** » 2013-03-10 16:07

Before the bill was even processed, the government made it as a projected budget, EC$32 million for the first year, then eventually anticipating US$360 million...
Did you know that the increase of ABST to 5% for its first month made 33M?? ABST is now at 15% and as a result of incompetent spending we find ourselves digging another hole to fill another.
The Bill didn't even have its first reading. logic- a promise is comfort unto a fool....

**The Revolutionary** » 2013-03-08 05:05

So exactly who are they targeting with this CIP bill? Not the north Americans who have no use for our citizenship. Not the Canadians, not the brits, not any first world citizens for sure. Why? Because we have done such a bang up job sullying our good name on the international front and with nothing to offer but our souls, hoping that someone will take pity and invert all or most of their lifesavings on what seems to be a sinking ship. You know who will be interested in CIP? The syrians, the palestinians, the guyanese, the bin-laden-ese, don´t forget the chinese (cause they´re always after world domination) and all the less and savory characters who see this as a stepping stone to "greener pastures". UPP, shame on you! Shame!

**Beanie Man** » 2013-03-07 07:24

How can we know CIP citizens will be OK, when some CIP backers don't qualify for CIP if investigated? One man pushing CIP (not a politician) with an A&B passport is known to have serious charges pending in another country when he apply for it, which turn to conviction. Word is he can't visit his native land without they arrest him. When those sort of people pushing CIP, better watch out!

**NYC** » 2013-03-06 00:11

The UPP government has made some mistakes. It seems like everything they touch corrodes. They cannot even open up one file to show who is amongst the population within 108 sq miles so tell me how the **** they are going to get reliable background checks on CIP candidates? Knowing them its probably the bank statement will be the only criteria. If they had demonstrated competence with who is who amongst the population, then I would be less skeptical of CIP. I do not think my people are all that stupid.

**John French II** » 2013-03-05 23:56

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock! Nation Building requires an informed Citizenry. In any Developed Country & many Developing, that issue would have seen a bevy of lawyers arguing both sides of the Constitution, especially when there is not settled Antiguan Precedent. There is the "Emeritus" Framer. Few Countries have that Good Fortune. The Silence is deafening.
Most members of A&B's Legal Fraternity are not Constitutional Lawyers so they keep quiet for fear of making an error. They are all Risk Averse. They are content to practice in the Corporate field where they can extraxt their pound of flesh & eat sumptously at the feeding trough. They have set up the system such that every thing requires their services.
The past AG who fleeced the local Palms has now become a shill for the UAE Palms. They give not a fig on educating the people to build a better society. It is all about the Benjamins. I guess I should have said the Lewises.
Sadly, no Law School exists in our country to encourage scholarly debates. That UWI, Cave Hill, Mona & St. Agustine, Law Schools do not engage, again speaks to the legacy of colonial island mentality. CCJ may help!
Respect!

**tenman** » 2013-03-05 22:40

Dig It kudos to you for picking that up. I read it and wondered why he had not already done such. The AG has already opined that the senate has to deny it twice and so far there has been only one rejection(the first time does not count because it was pulled before the debate). According to the AG the denials must happen twice in the same session in order for it to be delayed until another session.

..

**Dig It** » 2013-03-05 22:17

JF II, for a while you have asked the very same question on the 'Legal Beagles' role in our country. Yet, it has fall on 'deaf ears.' The people of this country should be 'engaged' by those in the 'legal fraternity,' especially, when it comes to issues of the Constitution. This CIP bill should have been a great opportunity to educate the public in an 'open forum.' The former Chairman, SB, said "...he intends to examine further the sections of the law books dealing with the matter." Wouldn't it be best, if he is joined by other 'legal scholars' in doing such?
Quote:

Friends with so many Lawyers in A&B, after 31 years of Independence, has any Constitutional Expert Arisen from this Pecuniary Fraternity?

I think it is a totol/blatant shame that the public is not hearing more from the 'legal intellectuals' on this CIP, especially, with the GOAB's intention to revisit it before November! JF, you may have been an "Overlooked Commenter" on the matter but certainly you have keep the 'passion-burnin g.' Jah Bless.

**jeb** » 2013-03-05 21:18

I think that if you give it thought you will realize that many of us would be supportive of the leader/s if they were honest and doing a good job for the country. Many of us voted for UPP in ’04 only to find out in less than a year (in my case for sure) that they were not in any way competent or honest. Sadly, for this country and the people, everything the UPP has done has been a failure and has resulted in extreme bankruptcy; thus the CIP which reeks of danger and corruption especially when being run by a bunch of total incompetents whose only goals have been clearly shown as being self enrichment. Take a hard look at the people in charge and name even just one of them that has shown any inclination whatsoever to perform their jobs for the benefit of the people. Check the so called advisors and party hacks that have been given high paying jobs to advise, money collection, security, tourism, sign contracts for power generation and so the list goes on…which of them has really been worthy of the job? I, for one, would love to be supportive to a qualified leader; unfortunately that person is yet to show him/herself.

JD » 2013-03-05 20:26

NYC - if you don't get it, there's not much more I can do about that except keep repeating myself. This is not about party politics, yet you don't seem to realise that the last one was a so-called 'dictator' too - but that is not what I'm talking about either. It is us, the people, who build the nation in the end and we need to do it by thinking and using our brains.

JD » 2013-03-05 20:15

tenman - totally agree. Those are the points I am making too but some don't, or choose not to, get it for some reason. We shouldn't accept CIP applicants just because they're purchasing property here, it should be based on much more than that, allowing our island to grow/develop and have the process work to our advantage/benef it of course. You're right, unfortunately our government seems unable to promise this right now and so this bill shouldn't go through as it is but it doesn't mean it's a bad idea as such. It's the ignorant comments and racism here that sadden me - we all need to rise above that. It really is amazing how Antiguans who no longer live here just don't get it, they expect to be treated fairly in their adopted country but, as you say, don't then apply the same back at home. They've shown their shift in loyalty by taking on another citizenship but keep sending their bad thinking back home while we're the ones living here, contributing etc. We all need to think and use our brains.

**SlyThatGuy** » 2013-03-05 20:12

NYC, it just seems to me that you're regurgitating what you heard from other people. I cannot agree with your assertion that the UPP Government isn't capable of performing any serious due process on whom they're going to sell passports to if they haven't sold any to anybody yet. Yes,I agree that the UPP Government has its shortcomings(as is everybody and every government) but attempts to correct them are currently taking place. I just wish that more of us would support our leaders rather than finding faults with them.

**NYC** » 2013-03-05 20:09

Like we say in Antigua. If you jump in the fire expect to get burn. If you can't stand the heat then come out of the kitchen. Cockroach no hab no right in a fowl house. Only a UPP will back this program because that is what they do. They back things that will not work out just right so my assumptions got to be on target. No ALP will back this failure. Why you getting so ticked off if you are not a UPP. Chill out man. This is a democracy which goes against the dictatorial leadership of the UPP. I am a friend of the Senator that stood up against your dictator and Antigua will stand up and defend itself from any dictator so get some backbone and thick skin and come along into the fire and get barbecued.

**SMH** » 2013-03-05 20:05

Did you sh%t out your common sense with your breakfast. Because they say that 250 homes will be built this year you swallow that? How many other things have they promised. The fact that 4 senators voted against this bill and others did not show up to vote should be clear evidence that something is terrible amiss here. These senators put their political lives on the line. You Id*%t. Tell me, why is it that they would be willing to go to illegal lengths to bring back this bill? Do you honestly think it's because of their love for the people? You St*^id Id%@t.

**tenman** » 2013-03-05 19:21

JD I have always found it funny when Antiguan's living abroad, some illegally would call local stations and demand that legal residents here be deported. Where CIP is concerned, the issue for me is really "if applied properly". I really can't see how someone simply building or buying at least a 2500 square foot home (the construction cost per sq foot is about 400.00 EC), should be eligible for our citizenship. We have persons from the region who have contributed more, spent over the 7 years required, and have been waiting for citizenship approval for over 2 years since application. In essence, I have no problem with a program which would create a serious amount of sustainable jobs and has the proper due diligence tests. However, the current program seems more about allowing party backers to sell real estate which has lied dormant.

..

JD » 2013-03-05 18:49

Don't make any assumptions about me or my political affiliations. Please stay in the US - no more space for racists and bad-mindedness in Antigua.

**John French II** » 2013-03-05 18:22

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock! The Lady Senator always cogently says the Right Things and always votes with her adopted class against the interests of the Working Poor.
She should have, if no one else, been an Independent Voice and a Beacon of Light to the People of the Rock Living in the IMF's NEST of Fiscal Adjustment & Structural Reform seeing their working & terminal wealth being eroded unmercifully and their psyches being torn by partisan and "Ethical Badmindedness".
To whom Much Is Given, Much is Expected!
Veritatis Splendor! Quote:

Truth enlightens woman/man's intelligence & shapes her/his freedom leading to Love!

Go Well! Much Respect!

**tenman** » 2013-03-05 17:07

Bruce as you have shown, the figures do not add up. This is all away to pretend the budget is being balanced. The house is on fire and Lovell has been able to confuse many in thinking its just a regular barbecue. During the senate debate, Sylvia Omarde basically summed the 32 million up as nothing but pure fantasy saying believing in such calls for more than just faith

..

**NYC** » 2013-03-05 17:03

The US is not selling passports like potatoes in a tray like the UPP government trying to do. There is a civilized process to obtaining a green card and passport. CIP sounds like a yard sale to me. Also UPP government not capable of performing any serious due process on who they are going to sell. Why just look at the Car Park, WPP, Fencing and all the other flaws. CIP will just be another Case In Point to add to my list

**SlyThatGuy** » 2013-03-05 16:59

The Citizenship by Investment Program (CIP) was Gaston Browne's idea but because the UPP Government plans to carry it out,some of the members of the ALP opposed it and convinced Gaston to do the same. They opposed it for this one reason: They know that if the UPP Government goes through with this plan,it will succeed in turning the economy around,which will make the UPP Government look good and ruin the ALP's only chance of winning the election in 2014. So that is why they are bad minding their own plan.

**NYC** » 2013-03-05 16:18

Come next election all of you who are now sponging on the UPP government will have to go.

**Bruce** » 2013-03-05 15:50

Some sums: EC$32M is US $11,851,851. A married couple contributing to the proposed Development Fund would pay GOAB $115,000 in 'fees' and $250,000 to the Fund = $US365,000. If they buy property, GOAB just gets US$ 115,000 in fees. Let's assume half do each - the average income per couple might be ($115,000 + $365,000) / 2, = US$240,000. At that rate, $11,851851 = 50 couples. If they all bought houses, 100 couples. That's 100 houses that aren't built yet, but it might be doable. BUT, GOAB was talking something like US360M CIP income in a few years. That's about 3000 houses bought if most do it that way, or 1500 if half gave $250K to the Fund. Either way, we all know that's just not going to happen.

**John French II** » 2013-03-05 15:49

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock. CountryWomen/Me n, demand more of our compatriot Legal Beagles. They have found every trick to work with & enjoy the company of knaves, scoundrels, criminals of every stripe, hosts of a$$orted rascals, con-artists, scamps & common thieves. As they strut to & from Chambers to Court pleading Quote:

God save your Majesty! I thank you, good people - there shall be no money, all shall eat & drink of my score, & I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, & worship their lord. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Nay, that I mean to do. Henry VI, Shakespeare.

Comrade Leader, this is low hanging fruit for you to provide counsel to the People. Native Constitutional Expert mentored with The "Emeritus" Framer's memory before it fades. Quote:

All of the work will not be done in Parliaments, most of it will be done outside...our parliamentarians meet very few times a year to pass taxes or to approve loans or rubber stamp IMF & World Bank & Yankee or European Imperialist Dictates - Dorbrene O'marde, Kingdome Consultant, Member of Boards & Reparations Chair!

Oh Gad! Comrade Lead Us!

**Southern Man** » 2013-03-05 15:42

Some rough back of envelope math: EC$32M budgeted = US$11,851,851. A couple buying a CIP qualifying house pay US$115,000 in fees ). Or, same folks give US$250,000 to the proposed Fund plus fees = US $365,000. If they did it half and half, that's about 50 couples - if it was nearly all by house purchase, about 100 - OK, that's doable. Let's forget big business investors, 'cos their numbers will be very small. BUT - I think GOAB claimed US$360,000,000 (?) CIP income in few years. If all house sales, that's about 3,000 villas - if half and half with Fund contributions, about 1,500. OK, this is simplified - but either way, we all know that's not feasible. Who did the sums on this?

**John French II** » 2013-03-05 15:10

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock! Comrade Leader, you faithfully promised the people a Shadow Cabinet & Spokespersons who would address specific portfolios of issues on behalf of the ABLP. This is urgently needed. The "Bewildered & Bemused Electorate" whom you & your motley band will be facing in atmost 372 days are adrift on the Parliamentary Procedures for the Passage of this CIP money maker budgeted at $32M EC with expectation, of roaring along like today's DOW Jones Index setting record highs, of windfalls for the 95% of African Descent Legal Beales, who are rubbing their hands with Fa$gin like glee & Prime Ministerial Coffers with $50M USD or $135M EC annually. Oh Gad! Jah Be Praised!
Not one Native Constitutional Expert has expounded on the Constitutional Ramifications of the Senates' CIP Bill Rejection & the Resultant Legal Fiasco. Where is the AG? Comrade Leader, Where is your Legal Spokesperson? The Cute Consigliere seems to be out of his depth. He is not serving the Gang of 4 very well. Lazy, No Compensation?
Friends with so many Lawyers in A&B, after 31 years of Independence, has any Constitutional Expert Arisen from this Pecuniary Fraternity?

**SlyThatGuy** » 2013-03-05 14:57

I am not the least interested in what you had to go through to become a US citizen. And because you're already of the view that we'll be selling our passports to mafias from all over the world,it's very unlikely I will be able to convince you otherwise. But the point is,whether you believe it or not,you paid money for your US citizenship and passport. In other words,you bought your citizenship and passport from the United State. But,in your opinion, it's wrong for other people to buy theirs from Antigua & Barbuda.

JD » 2013-03-05 14:46

The double standards in comments here is amazing.
NYC - you claim your birthright as an Antiguan citizen yet by your own admission you have left Antigua, you toil for another country yet ignorantly lay claim to your beloved Antigua which you have effectively abandoned. You admit that you live illegally in the US, you have illegally taken at least 2/3 of their citizen's jobs and you ignorantly don't see the irony of your situation. As you say, you are not wanted over there, yet you remain there - but you expect to be welcomed back here whenever it suits you, yet what have you contributed to your own country? Your comments show your racism, yet you expect others not to be rascist to you - amazing.
If applied properly, CIP aims to attract people willing to come to our island, to invest their money here, to help create business/jobs/o pportunities - it sounds like a good deal to me...

**PEACE** » 2013-03-05 14:30

You had better check with your UPP contact,or anyone in the UPP CABINET to show you an APPLICATION FORM for CIP.They do not have an application form.
The reason they went to the MIDEAST was to LOOK BUYERS.
Tell us what happen to the money they got from Chavez.It was to help the ECONOMY.What they did with Chavez MONEY is the same thing they are planning to do with any MONEY from the SALE OF PASSORT.

**John French II** » 2013-03-05 14:25

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock! Comrade Leader, it is a fact that the Political, Economic, Socio-cutural, Ethical, Demographic,Leg al & Technological environment on the Rock is spinning out of control faster than the time it takes the earth to spin on its axis & circle the sun. Take a quiet moment away from all the din, retreat amongst the Native ruins on Green Castle Hill. Fast, Pray & Spiritually Rea$$ess: your strengths & weaknesses & identify personal vulnerabilities ; diagnose your situation & seek understanding of your challenges & opportunities; continue your efforts to negotiate collective working relationships with colleagues; set out to secure early wins that will establish credibility with detractors & create a sense of momentum with your supporters; build your team & connect with coalitions from amongst villagers & the working poor, being wary of the Monied Class & Petit Bourgeoisie; Align your Strategies, Structures, Systems, Skills & Culture to ensure National Success; and, recognizing another Milestone Date is Fast Approaching with April Showers, balance personal & professional demands during this critical period of ambiguity & transition.

**SlyThatGuy** » 2013-03-05 14:04

That is most definitely not accurate! What do you mean with the CIP,you do not apply? If you do not have to apply, how does our government knows that you're interested in our passport and to issue you one? We're not going to issue passports to just anybody without first looking into his or her background. Case in point: CIP has good potential as an economy booster as well as the ability to help create jobs for the citizens of Antigua & Barbuda.

**John French II** » 2013-03-05 13:47

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock! In 1964, at a speech delivered at the University of Dakar, Senegal, Dr. Eric Williams, First Prime Minister of Trinidad & Tobago, to African Students & Politicians, Quote:

The whole history of political struggle in the British West Indies has been a struggle to achieve the parliamentary institutions & practices which were limited on purely racial grounds to white people.

Comrade Leader, What Time of Day Is IT? February has come & gone! Clearly, you have reached the "Breakeven Point". This i** at which you must rea$$sess whether the ABLP needs you as much as you need the job to lead Quote:

a band of Spades, (cobbled together from the Baracoon, still standing at lower Nevis Street. How many youth even know this exists much less older Residents & Citizens have seen the structure? Will it ever be preserved? Do we wish to let it "fade far away & quiet forget") & merry, motley masqueraders, filled with schemes, born of "De Bridge", to rob the hamlet dwellers' fortunes in the countryside: a selection of Clubs ... the most notorious Aces, who could abandon their musical bands for a short time - Edgar O Lake

**NYC** » 2013-03-05 13:43

You want the truth. Here is some friendly fire. I had to work my ***** off for 30 years with 2 and 3 jobs to hide here and pay bills with a very good chance of being deported without a chance of even buying a green card and if I make the mistake come home to see my dead parent I cannot cannot come back up here. I cannot even buy a VISA much less a green card to return to the US. So when they throw me out a the US a ANTIGUA ME COME FROM and me birth string bury here so why you don't treat those CIP Mafias that will be coming in from Syria, China, Russia, USA, CANADA, Iran etc the same they treating me here. They can bring their investment and develop but they have foo barn ya to get me ANTIGUAN passport. Give then a card first and if they behave then let them earn the Passport like the US.

**PEACE** » 2013-03-05 12:50

SLYTHATGUY: To Naturalize(In America) you have a choice,and if you choose to Naturalize you have to APPLY.Even as an Antiguan/Barbud an you have to apply to get an Antiguan/Barbud an Passport.
With the CIP,you do not Apply.And you do not have to SHOW YOUR FACE.

**SlyThatGuy** » 2013-03-05 11:16

NYC,your name instantly conjures up an impression of someone blogging out of New York City. Any way,let me ask you this: When a person becomes a naturalized citizen of the United States,doesn't he or she pay a processing fee and then another one for for a passport to have his or her citizenship recognized? So in a way(although the method is slightly different from Antigua's),the United states is selling its passport and I assume that you bought one. All this to say that if you have acquired a US passport in the manner previously described,you have already sold your own birthright and your claim is unfounded accusation.

**skyewill** » 2013-03-05 11:11

From a process that have failed to pass that would be illegal to table before the next session. I might win the powerball afterall!

**watcher** » 2013-03-05 11:11

Saying that selling our birthright with the CIP is a bit too much. We have about 90,000 citizens. There is a proposed limit of 200 (I think) per year. The economy has taken a battering, perhaps losing as much as 35-40% of our GDP of 3-4 years ago. Crime has increased because of the lost jobs. We need to create new jobs. No one else will help us, indeed we shouldn't be depending on others to help us. If the program is run well it should cover the potential areas for corruption. We can't have our cake and eat it too. The time has come for us to find our own solutions as an adult nation.

**Villager** » 2013-03-05 10:09

Why if the government is selling ANTIGUA & BARBUDA passports the moneies collected WILL NOT go into the Treasury? Something fishy here if that is the case. Just asking.

**Young analyst** » 2013-03-05 09:13

It really seems like some of the 32 million has already passed hands. But guys of the government please remember if or when you become the opposition all these things will be investigated.

**Dig It** » 2013-03-05 09:02

Well, the GOAB have a choice! Is either they wait until next session to re-introduced the CIP bill, as the law mandates in this country, or continue to make a 'mockery' of our constitution, in bringing this bill back from the "dead," all for a projected EC$32 million of this year's budget from 'selling passports?' I am of the view that they (GOAB) will go for the latter, as they have done in the past of not getting "parliamental approval" to further any debts to the country in loans, especially, with the WPP and the Airport Extention. This is the law that our Humble Servant passed in 2006. As our Humble Servant said to the 'Four Senators' that "kill-the-bill"
In our Westminster system of government, when government officials can no longer support the policies of government, especially at the parliamentary level, and demonstrate that by voting against a Bill, then the expected and right thing to do is to resign. http://www.caribarena.com/antigua/news/politics/103218-two-resigned-two-to-be-sacked.html#ixzz2MfTo6LEK
They will be more Casualties-of-W estminister before the year is end! I pray for this nation.

**OO7** » 2013-03-05 08:06

ADDED TO WHAT YOU SAID " IF THE UPP WAS IN OPPOSITION THEY WOULD RIGOROUSLY OPPOSE THE CIP BILL". CASE IN POINT HALF-MOON BAY SAGA

**M-EYE-U** » 2013-03-05 08:00

This is all about securing UPP election funds. Nothing else.

**youngentrepreneur** » 2013-03-05 07:37

I cant explain enough that this society is a bring down society , I am willing to bet if ALP wins Election this same bill will see its way to parliament and the same hypocrites attesting to this bill will all of a sudden be for it . Lets try think what is good for the people for once. All i know that it is simple economics is 250 homes are to be built for this year , which means more money injected in to the country ( materials bought, labor hired and money circulating) .

**NYC** » 2013-03-05 07:32

Even President Obama to this day has a tough time claiming US birthright. Why sell mine? Again I repeat please table our concerns below and leave the dead CIP where it is:

1. fight crime while training the police force
2. Investigate WPP, fencing, Chinese building contracts
3. Refund Social Security and pay the pensions on time
4. Develop sustainable employment
5. Develop sustainable technology and education
6. Find a new Chief of Police that's not political
7. Get out of the Communist bloc of nations
8. Reduce the high taxes off people's back
9. Call early election since this UPP gov bankrupt
10 Finally, the the UPP Grabament should resign now

**Jimmy** » 2013-03-05 07:23

Do your job! Ask the Bar Association for an opinion! Is that too difficult?

**PEACE** » 2013-03-05 05:56

The UPP Govt is so DESPARATE to PASS this CIP BILL,it is POSSIBLE that PASSPORT'S are BEING PROCESSED,becau se MONIE'S CHANGED HAND'S.
Question.WHY BEFORE THE BILL IS PASSED IN BOTH HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT,A GOVT DELIGATION WENT TO THE MIDEAST,WITH THE MAIN ITEM ON THE AGENDA "CIP" ?

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