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**microwave Chef** » 2012-01-19 10:54

so the price went up by close to 200% hmmmmmm ok Chef will say it's a bit steep .

this still does not give chef any more information to the real question here .Are these new engines or used because gues 2 the price you seem so fixed on is the price for new engines not those Chef has seen at in Parham.
the first question is not the price the first question is are these new engines because the price sounds new you gues 2 have now stated your self the price can increase. but fail to state if this is the new or used price. so I ask you now, new or used based on price?

**gues2** » 2012-01-19 09:04

Tenman,

Thanks for making my case for me. $20 million in 2004, now $57 million on completion. This show you how prices have moved up dramatically. We must always keep these things in mind if we want to be objective. As for the name calling. I will try to resist that in the future. I think we can have great debates presenting the facts.

**microwave Chef** » 2012-01-18 23:16

nope no need to dig that low , just presenting us with the facts and stand guard over the interest of the people, over the greed of a one party government( virtually a dictatorship). Regardless if this role falls to ALP or UPP. if you have the time get on you tube and take a good look at the British parliament have go at it and each other. :lol:

we have a Westminster style system like the UK. so in reply nope no need to lie or change the facts just doing your job and be a guardian of the people would be nice but this deep coma Lester seems to be in is cause for concern . for who is minding the shop while UPP goes hog wild?

**OUTOFANTIGUA** » 2012-01-18 22:27

And Microwave are you suggesting the ALP should behave the same way as the UPP in opposition? should they strip their soul naked and get down into the sewage pit created by the former gov'nmt just to smear the PM with stink and filth (gutter politics)like the so call rape of the young girl,murder of a child, stealing the treasury dry and owning 90% of all the countr's assets from my understanding this sesspool campaning by the upp gang who's mantra was and still is by any means necessary.Its the Obligation of the ALP to bury this beast of UPP 'S creation never to raise its Ugly Head again, and the only way to accomplish this is to let the upp drown in its own rotten filthy stench and self distruct,to close this miserable cycle to help Unite the country.

**OUTOFANTIGUA** » 2012-01-18 21:48

Morris who do u think will be in posesion of the Germans report?. Report u say? what the hell does that mean,they will give the report to the government since ,they hired them won't they? We all know very well how the upp gov'nmt handle's Reports(ask the gov/general and sir Gerald in case you forget.come on Morris what this gov'nmt puts in, is what we the people will get out. (gabbage in gabbage out).Thats why outside investigators is allways the norm,in any country. Is Antigua/Barbuda an exeption?

**microwave Chef** » 2012-01-18 21:19

no doubt the microwave radiation might have an effect on chefs brain Chef has made no secret of that. however in your haste to scream as loud as possible you overlooked one FACT that puts your point on par with the quality of the now famous Chinese German power plant.
what labor cost? it was build by Chinese with (Cheap)Chinese labor and Chinese parts made up of obsolete aged Germann MAN parts. financed and paid for by the Chinese( with Antiguan tax money yet to be earned or collected )in Chinese currency :lol:

are you really suggesting we should talk real cost? and so called increases in a country now famous for currency manipulation and low-balling every possible contract to keep this game going.... ask thew USA what chef is talking about...and LEARN.
nope sorry Chef has to advice you that your spin just spun out of control and out of the window..try again but come better :zzz

**tenman** » 2012-01-18 20:41

gues2 when was the price agreed on for the power plant, was in 2005? I ask because your prior post suggested 2005. You stated:
Quote:

Tenman #18 Gues2 » 2011-12-17 13:52 Negotiations with the Chinese started since 2005 not 2007. Read more: http://www.caribarena.com/antigua/news/latest/99213-pm-says-alp-distorted-power-plant-info.html#ixzz1jrHd4c5Y

Using the Haitian example are you aware that in 2004, the price for those generators would have been 20 million USD?

Quote:

Daniel-Gérard Rouzier, president of energy company E-Power, told of how a group of 34 Haitian professionals took up the government's call to create a sorely needed power plant in the country in 2004. After years of planning, they signed agreements with two banks for the $20-million loan required.

obtained from www.cfihaiti.net/j10/index.php/en/development-being-spurred-by-more-business-like-approach
..

**tenman** » 2012-01-18 20:01

gues2 can we focus on the debate and stop with the name callings? Anyway on the point of the 30 million, the PM in parliament during the budget debate stated it was an estimate. gues2 was the PM lying to the public? I heard him the same day he said it and also last night when it was replayed at least twice

..

**Guest2** » 2012-01-18 19:33

You presented no facts. Mumbo jumbo rhetoric is not good enough.

**Microwave chef** » 2012-01-18 18:53

look here friend, if you wish to come and get all serious about cost and increase Chef suggest you get real.
It is true the cost of power plants have gone up, that is to say the latest energy efficient "green" low emissions power plants. with the lowest possible fuel cost. not obsolete expensive diesel fuel powered plant with unknown emission and from the look of this plant it is old junk here Chef said it junk yard rubbish not worth it weight in scrap. some part seen in the pictures can be found as surplus 50% of all all parts in stock surplus sale so get bloody real . just Google M.A.N Germany and you will see the trail. Check out the parts # on the carib arena pics and have some fun.
Chef says yes the price has gone up so has the price of scrap metal and junk. however it seems that same or less money could have given us fuel efficient high tech low maintenance engines that don't bleed oil worse than a pig bleeds in slaughter. So before you come again get your facts because CHEF WILL BE FACT CHECKING ..so no spin don't even try.

**Rubbin Alcohol** » 2012-01-18 18:35

While I agree with comrade leader to go all out to make sure the tax payers are not burdened with an old plant I can't help but acknowledge the hypocrisy, hence I will never vote again. We have persons filing injunction after injunction preventing the public from getting the truth. Now they are championing a call for accountablity. This country is definitely not a real country. Depending on what side your on corruption is tolerable. I remember civil society was very vocal prior 2004 now they all in government eating down the place like locust.

**gues2** » 2012-01-18 18:02

"Construction costs for power plants have escalated at an extraordinary rate since
the beginning of this decade. According to one analysis, the cost of building a power
plant increased by 131% between 2000 and 2008 (or by 82% if nuclear plants are
excluded from the estimate). Costs reportedly increased by 69% just since 2005.
The cost increases affected all types of generation."

Source CSR Report for Congress -Power Plant Chracteristics and cost

**gues2** » 2012-01-18 17:33

Tenman let your followers know that anyone who thinks that a power plant would cost $ 1million a MWH in 2008 as it did in 2000 clearly does not understant how prices have moved during the period. Steel price, oil price and cement more that tripled during the period. Look at the link. You will see that Haiti paid US $ 57 million for their power plant. Please remember that a power plant does not only consist of engines.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110119/business/business71.html

**Microwave chef** » 2012-01-18 16:30

I guess Lester listens to the big issue's and thus gets his info from one media ? observer radio? Chef now has to concluded and remind all of us that it was the same observer radio who Blazed a trail for the UPP, and like a payed piper lead Antigua off the cliff of utter disaster , and now claim to be with investigating the generators after the obvious fact that they are not new.,,Chef listens to observer as well .but unlike the leader of the opposition Chef is very Care full with the news on Observer for it stinks of old blue and possible new red :-x

kinda like fox news. so much for the voice of the people and the opposition. for it is hard to tell who is leading who by the nose, Chef is still Stupefied by the slow lame response from the ALP opposition to date.

**Microwave chef** » 2012-01-18 16:29

As chef indicated this morning he finds that the leader of the opposition is a bit slow to get going on this generator issue. frankly Chef is stupefied by such lacks response time for such an important issue.
Since early December Chef has been reading about this generator story on Caribarena, learning much from some bloggers who seem to have more facts than our opposition. Chef could not hear a peep about it on observer print or radio.
prominent ALP MP,s like robin and Molwyn have visited the plant at least 3 weeks ago and only now Lester Bird can you find your voice? why because you only listen to observer radio ? :lol:

who now this week obviously claim they are behind the power plant investigation :-*

sorry chef had to take a break.

**gues2** » 2012-01-18 16:18

There was never any US$30. It was always RMB 300M from begining to end. There is no agreement in US currency.

**fnpsr** » 2012-01-18 12:34

Here is what I said in part at fnpsr »2012-01-17 01:01, under the Article “MP Joseph Accuses Government of Breaking Laws” CA Monday January 16, 2012.

“What was needed then was a multi-disciplin e approach from conception to delivery, to ensure that the government new what it was ordering and that it received exactly what was ordered.

What is needed now is an independent audit to determine what went wrong in the process; hold those responsible for the fiasco accountable and how to prevent future occurrences.”

MP Bird is correct and I agree with him. It appears that he was listening.

“Let’s fix the little things before we attempt to fix the big things.”

**new yorker** » 2012-01-18 12:22

The engines are new (knew), yes new to the islands of Antigua and Barbuda all they need is a good taxi driver and a tour of the islands
hopefully they will adjust.

**Anna** » 2012-01-18 12:16

The issue to me is more than that. We need an analysis of the costs also.

**Malcome.** » 2012-01-18 09:36

APUA should have a scope of works contract that David shoul negoiated.
Internation laws dictated that all parts and componets used on this plant must have a part and serial #... Just like all motor cars have vin and part # that you use at Dealerships, Powerplants are more regulated and tracted.
If APUA does NOT have all the contracts signed with XEMA,then Amb Shoul should be pressured to come clean . Please don't blame the poor enginers at APUA,they might have been out of the inner loop! :sad:

**Microwave chef** » 2012-01-18 08:29

Could be all that microwave radiation but Chef must be tripping balls.He the great hope of a nation has awoken from his slumber after 6 weeks of media buzz about these generators. our great giant has spoken

....he tells us the Calvary is on its way :lol:

, sorry sir you are royally late... best go back to sleep sorry :-*

but this is way too little way too late. a real opposition would be ready by now with some facts not promises...... We don't, no can't wait until 2014 , and worse where UPP is a total failure as a government the ALP your ALP sir has been an utter failure as an opposition, deal with the fencing scandal, the parking lot scandal the bencorp building scandal before you make us promises on this generators story/scandal. Do your Job the job we pay you for or like the UPP please fire ya self.because to many of us are Jobless right now.

**Morris** » 2012-01-18 08:06

Why go through all that, wasn't it reported that there were some Germans from the manufacturing company in ANU to determine the authenticity of the engines? If that was true, did they not give a report of their findings to the gov't? If so, why not request the info?

**Skyewill** » 2012-01-18 07:51

All you need Mr. Bird is the serial numbers. Note: certain parts may be new, some may be refurbished. I would like the see the government make a direct statement as to the fact. If they say they are used, then they lied when they said it was new. If they stick to their story and claim it is new, and it turns out they are telling the truth then they will shut the negative pipe off. But if they are caught lying. They would have self destruct. If they loose the next election they will be the weakest opposition in world history with no legs to stand on and not very much strength to hold off prosecution

**ADH** » 2012-01-18 07:17

What is Lester approaching outside agencies to tell him whether the plant is new or not?
Any competent engineer on the Island who is currently servicing diesel engines could tell him that for nowt.
The mind boggles. LOL

**ludemon** » 2012-01-18 06:13

Another question is that if the units are not new and are indeed refurbished, have they been updated to satisfy emissions and improved efficiency requirements. See also my comment on the 'Chinese Plant or Antigua's White Elephant ' story.

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