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ya » 2011-09-19 23:44

Regardless of who found out that corporal punishement was being adminstered to these kids and let it out of the bag did the right thing. The GG was right to intervene. We fail to realize that this is the 21st century and no mater how much you beat these children it will not change their situation. My first question- Are these workers who are employed at the Boys' camp trained to handle these kids? This is the first step that should be taken-how to deal with troubled kids and work gradually with them until they can be released from the facility and become model citizens. I have 2 kids and not once have I ever beaten them; we started to discipline them by letting them know the difference between right and wrong from the time they were young. Today they are excellents respectful adults. My daughter tells her friends,"my Mom never says something twice; the second time you get that look and you get the message."

**OutofAntigua** » 2011-09-19 19:24

My God I am 67 yrs now & I was 15 when I receive my last corporal punish mentioned in school. The St. Johns. BOYS SCHOOL head Master Mr. Hill roll up his shirt sleave to punish me and some other boys. For being late well I protested and he kept me upstairs and out of class for the whole mor :sad:

ning .I was'punish but I lost a half a day. &I never forget. & I don't give him another chance to punish me. THE G G WAS RIGHT THE REASON MOST COUNTRY'S STOPCAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS IT DOES'NT STOP KILLINGS. THE TEA HERD AT THE TRAINING SCHOOL MUST BE TRAI.ED PROPERLY IN HANDLING TROUBLED. BOYS &NOW THAT THE G G IS SETTING. HER SIGHTS ON WHAT IS WRONG IN AN.TIGUA/BARBUD A ;THEN I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME HER BACK HOME. WELCOME BACK. GOVERNOR. BLESSINGS & GOOD LUCK WITH THE NEW U . U R COUNTRY IS HURTING. C.O.F.A

**Morris** » 2011-09-19 18:43

Our leaders do not seem to realize that corporal punishment in most case usually have a negative effect on kids. They need to employ positive reinforcement if they want the kids to change for the better. I guarantee that I can use my 24 years of military experience and operate the institution like a military boot camp and get much better results.

Dig It - I remember the days of seeing how they would take out their frustrations on kids who were just being kids. I also remember my grandmother coming to school and issuing an ultimatum to my principal. Back then, we were not a bad bunch, just boys who rough-housed with each other and joke around....no drugs, no weapons, etc.

**Dig It** » 2011-09-19 16:58

Tenman, we can't continue to have staff use corporal punishment as the only alternative at the Boys school! We really need to find other alternatives to discipline the boys, and show that we are update with the times! We can perhaps take Skyewill's military approach, which is not a bad idea. Or, we can look at other similar model institutions and see how they are run and manage without corporal punishment. Yet, we need a sound system in place for discipline at the school. On that note, Tenman, a lot of us have memories (some painful) of the lashings back then in the 80s! How do you explain a Headmaster beating a student for looking at him while he inflicted corporal punishment on another? Or, even beat a student for singing his own calypso song,""Labardad ie Woman?" Yep, I could go on and on! Ask anyone about Dennis Parker? A man, me and friends have to run and hide when he is coming! The sights oi him made you freeze in your traps because he loves the belt, and one look would make you wet your school pants! That was primary school. Secondary school was much better!

**Dig It** » 2011-09-19 15:43

Meant "...I was NOT a bad youth..."

**tenman** » 2011-09-19 15:22

Dig It I agree with you we need to find alternatives. If used it should be the last option. My memory from secondary school (PMS) in the 80's was that no teacher or regular staff member should spank a child. I recall one teacher (geography teacher) getting upset and doing this and he had to apologize to the class the next day. Only the headmaster (Vincent Benjamin)could perform that function. Reading this article its clear that such a system is not even at place at this school and it looks like any staff member can punish children there using corporal punishment.

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**Dig It** » 2011-09-19 15:15

With so much of tax monies wasted on the fencing scandal, one would think that they would at least build a fence around the Boys school for security purposes! With all money, we could had built a fence to the blue sky! Yet, they can put fences where cattle and goat roam!

**Dig It** » 2011-09-19 15:09

Firstly, some of those boys at the school, have no business there! Not all of them are bad product of society! We need to be careful on our decisions to send the boys to the training school, and put better measures in place! On that note, I am not a big fan of the GG but I agree with her that corporal punishment need to be "do-away" at the school! We can punishment the boys with other methods than beating them with belts! I, myself, can testify to the "lashes" in Primary School, many moons ago, that still bear scares on my back! Of course, I was a bad youth, I just got the teaches with an appitite for beating!I agree with some of you that GG should handled the situation with the staff or ministry, and not in the presence of the boys. However, I believe the GG, if anything, boost the morals of many or all the boys with saying no to corporal punishment and getting them a lawyer! Sometimes a little motivation is needed!

**fed up** » 2011-09-19 14:34

Everyting inna dis country is a problem........ ..everytime some place strike they call on soldiers. those soldiers work 24/7, they have no time for themselves. For once, let the police & dem guard somewhere night time....those in authority at defence force will never say they don't have enough man for security. Stop work those poor people out with little pay......its just a matter of time they start investigation those wicked son of **es at Camp Blizard......Th e GG needs 2 look into this, the guys at BTS are doing a fabolous job. Men like xxx xxx, xxxx xxxx,( xxxxxx xxxx.....dumb as ever, just don;t know why they have this in the military,...hav e no sense at all>).....xxxxx xxxxx,etc....wi cked set of people. 2 be continued. : :oops:

**edwin** » 2011-09-19 13:45

Since the GG is so concerned she should resign her position for which she is obviously not suited and take up some of the social issues in this country. Maybe she can start with the Boys Training School that the Government is starving for basic resources.

**John French II** » 2011-09-19 13:38

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock. This is adressed to those under 40.
That is the time the People of the Book wandered in the desert and built a system of laws and Religious Tenets to guide their society in the New Land.
We are at 30 years and developing our systems and laws of governance. A&B is a member of the Commonwealth. The GG represents the Queen of England as our Head of State - no discussion on the merits. On Tuesday November 11th, 1975, the Governor-Genera l of Australia, Sir John Kerr, dismissed Mr Gough Whitlam as Prime Minister and appointed Mr Malcolm Fraser as a caretaker Prime Minister. The dismissal was the most dramatic event in the history of the Australian federation. For the first time, an unelected vice-regal representative had removed from office a government which commanded a majority in the House of Representatives . Contrast Australia then to A&B nowh whitlamdismissal.com/overview/ 3 years ago in Canada:
www.reuters.com/article/2008/12/04/canada-politics-suspend-idUSOTW00020020081204 Possible Here? NO. We are not at those stages of development. Heaven Help The Nation of Antigua & barbuda.

**tenman** » 2011-09-19 13:04

antigua woman yes there has. The article states: ". She is also said to have informed two staff members that there is a case pending against them over this issue."
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**ANTIGUAN WOMAN** » 2011-09-19 12:47

Have there ever been a suspicion of abuse at the school? I cant see why the GG would just decide to make these decisions without some grounds.However ,that been the case,it is my opinion that the staff could be called in a private setting and the matter dealt with. I am not a fan of the GG,but i fail to think,she would behave in such a manner without something spuring it, some of our people need to learn the difference between Punishment and abuse.

**PeterPan** » 2011-09-19 11:54

Rule number one -
You never criticise teachers in front of children.
Professionals know that.

**tenman** » 2011-09-19 11:32

Below is an idea of the function of a patron (in Austria):

Who is the patron?

In general, the patron of a school can be an individual or a group and represents the owners of the school. The patron may manage the school personally or may appoint a person or group, such as a board of management, to act as manager. Under the Education Act, 1998, the patron has the right to take over managing the school or appoint another board or board member.

Obtained from:
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=&pcategory=10856&ecategory=41358§ionpage=12251&language=EN&link=link001&page=1&doc=37555

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**Antiguan Abroad** » 2011-09-19 11:31

Tenman, I respect your views...but we must disagree on this point. Members of the British Royal Family (past and present) have been patrons of many charitable organizations over the years. It would be unheard of for Prince William, for instance, to go to a homeless shelter which he patroniizes and berate the workers and threaten them with legal action for any perceived infractions. On the other hand, it would be proper for him to comment generally (and publicly) on issues he cares about, as his father Prince Charles has done on occassion (and has taken flak for, by the way). As I said, the issue should be addressed from a policy perspective with the people in charge of setting policy.....Did the workers violate the rules by using corporal punishment on the boys?

**edwin** » 2011-09-19 11:19

We Antiguans have a basic problem understanding issues. We can read but we don't understand. The issue is not whether what she is trying to do re-corporal punishment etc is right. The issue is that the post of GG is a rubber stamp and she hs no authotity to intervene and disrupt the running of a Government institution. Can you imagine the Queen, whom she titularly represents doing this in England? She is out of order. She has no more right or authority to intervene in this way than John Public.

**tenman** » 2011-09-19 11:05

Antiguan Abroad she (her office) is the schools patron. I suggest those unfamiliar with the term to look up what that means. Yes she has the right to do what she did

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GG » 2011-09-19 10:32

The GG was wrong in repremanding the staff in front of the boys, that should have been done seperately, it also undermines their (the staff) authority giving the boys the idea they need not have repect for these people... in most cases these boys end at the institution becasue there parents have reached the end of the rope and have no other option.Sometime s these kids now a days need a good lashing cause you cant get through to them any other way but there is a thin line between corporal punishment and abuse and that abuse line should never be crossed

**Antiguan Abroad** » 2011-09-19 10:27

Does the Governor General not have sufficient of a workload these days? Why exactly should she be micro-managing the affairs of this school? If she has a problem with some of the policies put in place by the school and sanctioned by the Ministry of Education, shouldn't the proper protocol be to address her concerns directly with the minister in charge? The issue should not be whether one agrees with corporal punishment at the school or not....if there is to be a change in that particular "policy", then it should come from the top....instead of threatening workers who are acting within the purview of their duties. This is nonsensical state of affairs having a so-called head of state issuing threats against lowly teachers as they attempt to carry out their duties under difficult circumstances. Of course, if this is NOT the policy of the school, the workers should be punished, but I maintain that it is not the GG who should be monitoring these matters.

**lpanu** » 2011-09-19 10:17

How could corporal punishment be illegal? More like why should it be illegal? There are many governmet primary and secondary schools on island that still use this form of punishment and no one is kicking up about it. So why would it become an issue at an institution where it is absoultely necessary, in some cases, to use it.....chups... smh

**Silent Observer** » 2011-09-19 09:35

I am in total agreement with her on the matter: She is correct in dressing down the staff in the presence of the boys; I know boys who have been in the institution and tell tales of horror. Often no one listens to them, they are usually at the mercy of the staff and god forbid one staff member who may be in a bad mod or feeling like throwing their weight around. I however would like to see the institute fenced and treated with some more dignity.

**tenman** » 2011-09-19 08:38

I am no fan of GG, because I question her independence due to her willingness to be partisan. However, I support her stand on this issue. I find it out of the way that the ministry of education would state that its no longer responsible for providing education to those boys. Their action is illegal. This action shows that we place no value on education. It guarantees that those boys will end up as criminals. If its so easy for them to do this shows that whatever support they provided before was not done with the best of intentions. The general attitude throughout this country where those boys are concerned is awful. I recall staff going on strike because the Dean at ABIIT decided to have the boys from that school visit ABIIT. I can also read behind the lines that the boys there are being abused. The GG is not known to go against the government so when she does, things must be really out of hand for her to take the stance she has.

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**tenman** » 2011-09-19 08:33

Obtained from www.antiguaobserver.com/?p=64620
"Other workers, who all spoke on condition of anonymity, told The Daily OBSERVER the governor general called a meeting with students and employees present because she was unhappy over a Ministry of Education decision to remove the boys from the public school system and have them taught at the institution.

“The decision meant we started home-schooling the boys from first of September and she has taken great offence to that. She’s of the opinion that we have taken away their right to an education which is not true because we are actually giving them an education here,” an employee said.
It’s just the matter of how it was done. She never discussed this with staff. She didn’t have staff in a separate room, she said everything in front of staff and boys as to who gave us such authority and we have no right to do this and it was really demeaning and humiliating,” the staff added.

They also said the governor general questioned the Ministry’s right to make such a decision and dismissed the validity of the board set up to run the school"
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TC » 2011-09-19 08:24

I agree with what the GG said about corporal punishment and appointing an attorney for the boys. There are other form of punishment. At the same time, the GG could have called a meeting with the teachers and inform them of this decision

**jasonp** » 2011-09-19 08:03

This arragant, ignorant woman who was thrust on our Country from wherever, should go back under the rock from where she came!
She has single handedly negated years of work by the often forgotten hard working staff at the school. WHY can the millions be spent on fencing basket ball courts and NOTHING be found to fence the school, as quite obviuosly there is no way to control these boys under the present circumstances. Maybe the GQ can make a contribution??

**Perplexed** » 2011-09-19 07:33

Why do we belittle and treat each other as children, well far worse for I would not yell or belittle my child. There is always a better way to communicate.... you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Treat people with respect regardless of your title or position in life.

**John French II** » 2011-09-19 07:19

Notes From A Native Son Of The Rock. Corporal Punishmen in the 21st Century on a small island state nation. Many Men, Many, Many, Many, Many Men wish death Pon Us. Don't Cry No Mo. Don't Look To The Sky No Mo. Have Mercy Pon Us. On what planet are these Staff Members Living? Have these folks been given any formal training? Hon. Dr. PM, Hon Dr. Min. of Youth & The AG if the legislative framework and the administrative governing policies and procedures for the Boys Training School permit such abusive behaviour change them now. If not quickly bring these abusive miscreants to Justice. We treat our ** better at the Donkey Sheltter. This is not something that the outside world will enjoy to learn of where "The Beach is the Beginning" especially now that we are "Rebranding". To those of you who will find another reason to "Bash" the GG, Look before you leap into Hades. I shall not question her Motivations. The GG is the Queen's Representative as Head of State. The GG- Head of State representing the Queen - is Patron of the Insitute. Overstepped her Bounds! The Staff is adrift. Have Mercy Pon The Boys. Heaven Help The Nation Of Antigua & Barbuda including Redonda?

**Morris** » 2011-09-19 06:36

I have to say that I am with the GG regarding the corporal punishment, which if not applied properly could be seen as abuse. However, I am completely baffled that EC$54 million was spent on fence and this institution was overlooked.

**James** » 2011-09-19 06:29

How can the GG embroil herself in matters which are best left to persons who are not only professionals, but are on the front-line? No respect was shown for the workers as our uneducated GG, sought to humilliate them in the presence of these "bad boys"! by underminig their authority to implement dicipline in the most effective way they see it! Madam GG this is not a group of boy scouts, these are young men who have the potential of being the future drug pushers, rapist and murderers. Get real and understand your role or resign! As a matter of fact with the many bad political decisions you have made you should resign!

**Skyewill** » 2011-09-19 06:24

I believe the GG made some really good efforts here. I agree with no corpral punishment and the appointment of an attorney and maybe a pro-bono advocate for the boys. The way to manage those staying out at night is to impliment a military style reporting system where there is supervison 24/7. But sneaking out is normal behavior for boys, I did it myself. When Granny nar look, I was out of there. So all kinds of places get fences and where we need fence has no fence, What- a- ting

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