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**naiomi** » 2010-11-17 11:32

all I can do is laugh. my way of helping Tenman is right please ignore cool ruler, PLM, and Eric because they have no love for Antigua. If they had one bit of common sense they would realized that UPP is not on the right track and they need to stop and take a look and start over. But they don't give a damn about Antigua only party. ALP took 28 yrs to have a debt of 2.2 billion dollars and UPP has a debt of 1.5 billion in 5 years and these guys are not asking questions? They have increase taxes and have been borrowing non stop but nothing is happening in Antigua. Antigua is in one Mayhem and it needs to be fixed and instead of them saying what can be done they are going back to when the ALP was government what nonsense is that. the three of them need a good kick BAM TEK THAT RULER, PLM, ERIC

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 23:03

Eric so its the police who are aiding and abetting them? Is the DPP doing the same? After all based on your post, you have conclusive evidence of their guilt why have the police not arrested and charged them? I recall the DPP stating that the police would have to investigate the matter to find evidence he can use. Clearly that means your evidence was not sufficient to garner a conviction. The police themselves have stated they are still investigating the matter. Perhaps the problem here is they did not attend the Justice square trail where they heard the results of the jury with MP Spencer and the trouble maker Chaku as judges. I take it after that mock trail you wanted the police to head straight to the judged guilty persons home, and take them to prison. Thank God our laws do not work that way because the ALP would simply have something similar and then have the police head to UPP MP's home and do the same. While you were wasting time having mock trails it seems the figures for the national debt evaded the finance minister. Perhaps you should have the police investigate that matter since they can probably do a better job than the ministry of finance at finding it.
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**Eric** » 2010-11-16 20:29

Tenman – Check with the police – this matter was already turned over to them. Maybe you can get them to complete their investigations

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 14:47

Eric, would be an accessory after the fact, he knew they stole and have evidence but fail to turn them (ALP) and the evidence over to the police thereby allowing them to flee (not to be prosecuted).

I f ALP officials are guilty and still walking today, Eric is a criminal also for knowing (and covering by not presenting) they are guilty (as he mentioned in the blog) but did not turn in the evidence and individuals.

I like your reply Tenman, very intelligent.

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 14:31

Eric, if you have information on the matters you listed why don't you provide it to the police. I just can't understand how you think you have info that can convict persons yet they are still free. Perhaps you should be charged for aiding and abetting due to your reluctance to share the evidence with the police. I thought the UPP purpose was to pursue these issues? Aren't you tired of them making a comic of you? Eric while you helping them bring justice why don't you go and help MP Lovell find the figures for the national debt?

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**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 14:06

Come on, be intelligent and moral, do i sound like I support illegality or immorality. The other thing please look at the facts before you send people to hell because some day you may be in that position and really need a fair trial/investiga tion.

Again, if some one steals public money they should be placed in prison and forfeit all their assets but if they are innocent we should clear their names.

Do me a favor never include me in illegality and immorality and i promise i will do the same for you. use another form of debating tactic or engaging tactic.

Again, i am not ALP nor am I UPP but I am for the people (striving to be Godly)

**Eric** » 2010-11-16 13:04

Tenman – why are you afraid to face the IHI and the APUA Funding rip off? Is it that you and the other ALP diehards support Fraud and rip-off? Are you and “my way of helping” wishing for the return of the Fraud and “babul” so that you can be a part of it?

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 12:39

Likewise

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 11:41

Eric, you ask Cort yet why he moved the bill yet for APUA funding in parliament? I am hearing that the great doctor will soon also be our attorney general since Justin is leaving. Do you recall MP Spenser's vote in parliament for that bill (I honestly I don't know)? Eric why are you trying to change the subject? You are a lover of UPP go and help MP Lovell figure out the national debt.,On radio he says its currently 3.1 billion, the press release today from Min of finance says its 3.2 at the end of 2009, The IMF says its 3.57 at the end of 2009, Lovell during the 2010 budget debate showed it as nearing 3.8 at the end of 2009. Eric stop allowing hate from preventing you from seeing the truth.
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**Morris** » 2010-11-16 11:29

I sure enjoyed the exchange. That is what good debating is all about. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 11:28

I agree that anyone who steals should repay and be reprimanded. However, anyone who is innocent but only move funds from one successful venture to the next to help out a failing one should be commended.

Eri c what you have said is brilliant; the guilty must be punished and the innocent be freed.

**Eric** » 2010-11-16 11:17

My way of helping & tenman
If we had the millions of dollars ripped off in the IHI, and the APUP FUNDING schemes during the last ALP administration we could probably balance the budget without borrowing. If Lester, Asot and the others who are named in the civil charges by the Attorney General (relating to IHI) would arrange to use their influence to have those who are responsible, for this money to returned it to the Treasury we could all celebrate a wonderful day in Antigua.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 11:12

i love you all and i have not taken anything to heart. Just remember what is most important, love, people and most definitely God.

**fnpsr** » 2010-11-16 10:59

Morris, your point is well taken.

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-16 10:45

Tenman to use a fishermens analogy I know I could bank on throwing out certain bait and you would bite. Anyway in a few weeks time the budget will be presented. My way of helping nothing personal as I always say all the politians are friends so I will never take any one to be an enemy over politics

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 10:32

Sorry, but my last post should've been addressed to you.

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 10:29

Your statement: "I also wanted to consider the repayment plan for the debts for Both Parties and see if this also was an advantage or disadvantage?"

This is the Morris that you've usually read, and this is what I've been hinting at for the longest. There was no advantage, because there was no repayment plan. They simply ignored their responsibilitie s to repay their loans and allowed the debts to accrue interest. The UPP is no different, they also neglected to pay on the debts and continued to borrow and spend indiscriminatel y.

Now, I will acknowledge that it is ok for a country to create debt by using deficit spending, but we all know that Antigua is too small and lack the resources to handle the current debt load.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 10:25

You do not have to pray about it? not everything is observable with regular two eyes we have. However, the debt exist and both government should not have borrowed that much and I despise dishonest person. People who will make agreements and to not stand by their words.

I have tow rules, if I cannot afford the real gold, I will not wear the fake gold. If I can't afford to pay for it then I do not want it.

God bless you and politics and parties will always prevail on this earth. there is more division than unity (my way of helping, 2010)

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 10:06

There is no need for me to pray about the situation to understand the gravity of it. The fact again is that irresponsibilit y on the part of the ALP to repay loans has caused a lot of interest to pile up and help baloon the debt to its current level. Trying to justify the irresponsible behavior of the ALP under any pretense is unacceptable. The debt is one thing, but the interest? Come on! I will not tell you who to side with, but you should be using your same advice and pray to see the fact/truth for what it is. As I have said before, and will say again, I am not defending the fiscal irresponsibilit ies of the UPP as I have been, and will continue to be, as critical of their actions as I have been of the ALP's.

On another note, your reference to ALP building the infrastructure is well taken. It was their job to build the infrastructure and all that you mentioned. After all, they were the government of the day. Was it suppose to be the job of the opposition to do so? UPP was given a chance and a mandate to govern and they screwed up, and is still screwing up royally.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 10:05

This is not the morris I usually read, Everyone knows government is responsible for the progress of their country. The point I was making here is if the DEBT is reasonable (justifiable, was it used to develop and perform its functions) not to justify a specific parties spending (ALP's debt was well worth it as you mentioned) but to honestly and neutrally compare the difference, the marginal benefits, the priority, how many years it took for the debt to accrue to what it is, the living circumstances of the people, the salary of the people and government officials, I also wanted to consider the repayment plan for the debts for Both Parties and see if this also was an advantage or disadvantage? I wanted to consider everything and did the current new addition of debt was because they took money out to pay for pass debt?

We always look on the surface and i was motivated by God (ignore this cool ruler) to consider everything because you conclude. You have seen my conclusion throughout my blogging.

Morr is again, I am not UPP nor am I ALP but I am for the people.

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 09:45

My way of helping asked a question regarding who built our roads, and such, to justify that the ALP's debt was well worth it. Perhaps my response should have said administration for easier understanding, but I am certain the point was understood. However, I will say to you that it was not private corporations that funded the TVA or the interstate and federal highways, etc. It was the US government of which the president is the man in charge, and that is my point.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 09:33

Brilliant comments, Brilliant

**fnpsr** » 2010-11-16 09:27

Morris, you stated, "As a person who now reside in the US, who was the last president to really build anything in America? ". US Presidents don't build anything. They create the environment so that others can create jobs and build things.

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 09:22

my way of helping, please ignore and forgive Ruler. He is simply doing the sad thing our culture teaches us, when we can't deal with issues we instead attack the messenger. Do not allow him to distract you, stick to the issues.

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**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 09:19

morris it is wrong and horrible to borrow money and do not repay but the death by ALP and the death by UPP are completely different and some day you may see how. this "how" is what i am trying to let you compare and know the difference.

Pr ay about it and you may see the difference, Yes there is a debt and we must handle it and it is sad it is increasing drastically and quickly but honestly not to the benefit of this great United Islands of Antigua and Barbuda. show me one way the people of this great nation is benefiting through this "world wide economic crisis" to lessen it blows?

**Maco** » 2010-11-16 09:17

Note4 of the statement issued by the Ministry of finance is misleading if not downright dishonest. At the point when the Devcon Loan was paid off the balance of US$29.7M representedthe furure value of a loan which would have been amortized in 11.33 years. the Goverment paid Devcon approximately US$12.5 in cash and agred to write off approximately US$17M in taxes owed by Devcon. Decon received the value of US$29.7 11.33 years early. In its 2005 income statement Devon reported nearly US$12M which is the value of the unearned interest for the 11.33 years as a gain on the Antigua receivable note. Please check Devcon's SEC filings by typing DEVC (The company's stock symbol) to verify what I have written. This can be done through msn or yahoo.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 09:12

They will justify until they die, even when dead they will say oh my murder was justified. They will even try to discredit the fact by calling the person conveying the facts crazy or unchristian like. One thing I learn from the bible, you can here the truth and facts and learn from even the most horrible persons on earth. Paul killed Christians and hated them but God changed him and inspired him to write a huge part of the bible, if we think like Cool Ruler, we would not listen or believe a thing he wrote in the bible.

Cool ruler, you can learn from people who you consider to be your enemy. because you consider me (my way of helping) and the ALP as your enemy does not mean you can't learn from your enemy or does it mean everything out of our mouth are lies.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 08:58

Thanks for the airport information and you can also let me know about the other questions i ask, when you find the time and answer.

@COOL Ruler, you have never once addressed me properly and use my blogging name, you do know manners and respect can get you any and everything? I know this. you are right to that you should not call people liars but if you have witness the lies and have proof to support your statement then by law it is okay. I have the proof, law and medicine is not important so we not spending money on it wow.

One final thing, I do not hear voices like a mentally disabled person but I hear God. We talk a lot, I know you have no idea about God and speaking to him. Next time have a bit of confident in God he does exist to speak to people, if they want to listen.

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 08:43

Cool Ruler the graph was presented November 2009 for budget 2010. Are you suggesting that the technicians had no idea of the 2009 or the 2008 debt when they created that graph Nov 30, 2009? That graph shows the national debt for 2008 at 3.1 billion, you someone who worked at a bank wants to suggest that the 3.1 billion for 2008 was a projection? Since any logical person would know no one makes projections for action that took place a year before how can you then argue that the national debt for 2008 was the same as for 2009 as Lovell now does? By November 30, 2009 the finance ministry would have had most of the figures in for 2009 if they did not then it makes no sense to have a budget presentation.

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**Morris** » 2010-11-16 08:32

I did not miss your point. The issue here is that the debt is real, it is not a figment of our imagination. Regardless if the ALP used debt to finance infrastructure development, they never paid any of it back, so what is the difference?

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 08:19

your Government that believes in tertiary education say they are not interested in Law or Medicine. No lawyers, no doctors, then you find out people who are big associates of the party is lower universities with grades not even close to as high as yours are getting money to attend school.

Thank God for tourist who loves and admire people with manners, thanks for for parents who can work hard, thank God for an uncle who will do anything for you. thank God for rich professors that will give you $30,000.00 of their own money to pay for school. Thank God for making a way. You will hear what I hear because both Government ALP and UPP deny the youths and focus on supporter and my family and friends have yet to benefit from anyone of the parties directly (well only the free hams and turkey we ever got). one government lied about the importance and one government simply say no, which do you think is worse?

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 08:09

Sorry for the late reply people, I took a nap after shower.

Hey, I am a very young man 26 to be exact, I do remember hearing things about ALP growing up and was very angry and disappointed. However, I also left to study for my degrees and frankly I was did not know there was a Carib-arena online or any online papers that i could blog on and let my views be heard or as I mentioned if inspired by God let it be known.

Morri** I am making here about the infrastructure is if ALP did all those that i mentioned well the 2.2 billion budget deficit is nothing in comparison to the recent addition of 1.6 because frankly i do not see (tangible assets, infrastructure) or feel much (intangible assets, programs etcetera) that would really make this deficit most likely justifiable. morris you mis** totally and yes I know government should better the life of the people (read all my old blogs). my point was who was and is spending to much and showing too little betterment for the people.

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 08:05

Forgive me for ignoring your question regarding our airport. Well, it was originally an American airbase that was built during World War II. It was originally named after the person who inspired its construction, Capt. Hamilton Coolidge of the US Army Air Service.

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-16 07:07

Now I have gone back and taken a look at the budget for November 2009 and will simply say that the graph was simply a projection. Simply put, a projection could simply turn out to be less it could end up being more. To be calling into question the character of the hard working technicians in the ministry basically calling them liars to try and score cheap political points is nothing short of a disgrace. To be harping on the graph line which is just under 4 billion is neither here nor there; it could simply be a case of the graph designer to getting it right. In the absence of an actual amount quoted for the year, it does not make the pronouncement now being made by the ministry a lie as some of you is claiming.

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 06:38

Shelly G - I most certainly did not twist your words, but merely used them against you. My point was that, yes, we enjoyed a lot of relaxation under the ALP, but at what cost, the cost of not repaying loans, which added to our debt? I am in no way letting the UPP off of the hook as I have been equally critical of their mismanagement and irresponsibilit ies.

My way of helping - It is every government's responsibility to provide the basic infrastructural needs for the betterment of its citizens. However, this is not about who built what, it is about fiscal irresponsibilit y and transparency. I will tell you that each government (not only in Antigua & Barbuda) is different in the way they deliver: whereas one government might deliver new infrastructure, another might deliver social programs. As a person who now reside in the US, who was the last president to really build anything in America? Our problem in Antigua is that none of the politicians are being totally honest with us, because they fear they would be ousted from office. Bottom line. Instead they continue to feed us sixes for nines, and many of us continue to fall for the same tricks over and over again.

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-16 06:06

My simple question to you is this did God only recently start talking to you? Were you hearing voices in your head since 2004 or did you hear any prior to then. I too love how you religious zealots tend to be selective when you claim you hear from God. Do you honestly think that a government that believes that Tertiary education is more desirable than secondary education will attempt to fool it citizens and insult their intelligence? Please! Just my was of asking.

**ANTIGUAN** » 2010-11-16 05:32

I thought the UPP Govt were the ones obsessed with debts talks, now that the ALP has finally decided to expose the Hypocrisy,some people now have a problem with the Debt talks, funny how some persons find it so hard to swallow the medicine they measure out for others.

**PLM** » 2010-11-16 05:04

Bird people know something about God? Dem only know bout Obeah and table sal’.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 04:33

I do not know how to play warri, and believe it or not, while i was just taking a shower I felt someone was going to say what you are saying about that specific blog but I am confident in God and respect God that i will never ever dear attempt such a thing as you are speculating. you will hear more things God reveals to me and feel free to adjust your life according and verify, you have access too him too.

I am sure if I was saying what you wanted me to say, it would not be what you deem my message to be (warri), you would be jumping and waving and coming to my support, please don't ever. How about you stop being ignorant and investigate a matter before you put people in hell and condemn them for eternity. Wait and see my revelation will be your life, only time will tell.

I thought the deals was for you to only curse me if you will contribute positively.

Go d Bless you and I pray you are given wisdom and understanding. Love you Cool Ruler, you just need some love, that is all.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 04:17

nice comments but you made one error, it is not their wife or girlfriend, some of them have both. Not one thing has been done to ease the suffering from the "world wide economic crisis" as any good and caring government would do.

They do not spend their salary at the end of the month because they are provided with everything from the tax payers money. They even support their children and wife on our tax payers money and not their salary.

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-16 04:09

It is truly amazing that the people who did not concern themselves with any national debt prior to 2004 suddenly are acting as if they are so fiscally responsible. It seem like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. There are some persons blogging hear who is claiming that God has talk to them and told them what ever, I have to ask this person did God only start talking to you since 2004? Because it seem as if you just woke up or something from your coma, This is just my way of asking. you can go ahead playing warri.

**Buzzbomb** » 2010-11-16 04:08

Pardon me if I don't believe a word uttered from Mr. Lovell.
And while I disagree with Tobi's sentiment, I agree that we are stuck with this tax & squander government until 2014. Our government officials will continue to pay themselves, exploit their duty-free status (passed the first year they were in power) continue to take all their benefits/discou nts of public office, travel abroad first class, stay in 5 star hotels and collect their per diems as they jaunt about with their wives or girlfriends producing no results for our twin island nation until 2014.

**Tobi** » 2010-11-16 03:30

Regardless of what numbers are presented, the Birdites will sing their song. The bottom line is, the present government will stay in power till 2014, and continue to clean up the mess created by the same debt- incurring Birdites.

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-16 03:27

in the words of Gaston Brown. ''So what"!!!

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 03:23

Shelly G; God is everything and he gave us love to solve any issue. Yeah, I do understand your reasoning that ALP was in power with no infrastructure? Morris I am not being sarcastic here but I am asking a legitimate question as i do not know, who made the first airport in Antigua and orchestrated the many different airlines to fly there? was all this done under ALP or under the Queen? the road network in Antigua and Barbuda and the forming of various offices was it ALP or the queen? ALP was the first in power after independence, I am assuming, so is it safe to say they build it from scratch?

Morris I know ALP also did some horrible things and horrible things are not accepted at all, they also most likely also wasted money, and abuse particular powers, all unacceptable but comparing what they did from nothing (no infrastructure, not much assets, capital), it is safe to say they did better than UPP (for now anyways), UPP has 4 more years maybe something will happen, even thou God told me otherwise and he is never wrong.

**Shelly G** » 2010-11-16 02:46

Imagine what they have accumaulated in they short period in office, give them one more full term after this one and we will be in trillions, If that is not horrible enough WHAT DO WE HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT?? maybe Morris can answer that ,BTW,i like that you are trying to bring a Christian perspective into things, we all need to acknowledge that God is indeed in control.

**Shelly G** » 2010-11-16 02:39

Okay,i get your method, and i understand fully, howvever as i said before i will not be intimidated by anyone to purge my conscience, i call a spade a spade, no matter what method you try, they minds are already made up as to the ALP,what they are all forgetting is that the ALP was in govt for almost 30 straight yrs, running this country as one of the lowest taxed in the region,to say they wasted money and borrowed too much is Hypocrisy to say the least, remember i am in total agreement about been more responsible in repaying, But how can i speak about someone who has a scratch on his/her feet,when i may have a sore on mine, the UPP should not mention the word DEBT, they should be ashamed to do so

**fnpsr** » 2010-11-16 02:34

Tenman, I am not saying that the IMF report is incorrect. All I am saying is that I see no evidence that the IMF does any independent verification of what is presented to them. As I have said, I always take the figures presented by the government with a grain of salt. It is going to be interesting in a couple of weeks when the FY 2011 Budget is presented. I can hardly wait!!

**Shelly G** » 2010-11-16 02:30

I am sure you read the start of my post about been more responsible when it comes to debt repayment, you should also realize my reasons for listing the Taxes we never had all during that period, it is your opinion that they did nothing except acuumulate those debts, ask yourself if there is anything you can point to for those debts? if been able to run Antigua on low taxation policies,and doing so sucessfully is not enough to give credit for,then in your own words,OH WELL!!

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 02:23

Eric since you may suspect that the ALP hijacked the IMF web site, lets instead look at page 27 of the 2010 budget, presented by the Hounouable Harold Lovell ab.gov.ag/gov_v4/pdf/treasury/budget_speech_2010.pdf there is a chart on that page entitled public debts 2008 to 2014 which shows the national debt in 2008 at 3.1 billion and the 2009 debt at a little short of 4 billion. Eric the ALP hacked the governments web site andc forced MP Lovell to present this information? MP Lovell is either now being mislead or is leading the charge. Eric you are entitled to your own opinion not your own facts. It must truly hurt to know that MP Lovell is misleading you

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**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 02:15

Misrepresentati on is a tort, or a civil wrong. This means that a misrepresentati on can create civil liability if it results in a pecuniary loss. To create liability for the maker of the statement, a misrepresentati on must be relied on by the listener or reader. Also, the speaker must know that the listener is relying on the factual correctness of the statement. Finally, the listener's reliance on the statement must have been reasonable and justified, and the misrepresentati on must have resulted in a pecuniary loss to the listener.

A misrepresentati on need not be intentionally false to create liability. A statement made with conscious ignorance or a reckless disregard for the truth can create liability. Nondisclosure of material or important facts by a fiduciary or an expert, such as a Prime minister, lawyer, or accountant, a minister of finance can result in liability.

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 02:13

fnspr et all if you have the time please take a look at page 27 of the 2010 budget speech ab.gov.ag/gov_v4/pdf/treasury/budget_speech_2010.pdf there is a graph there entitled public debt 2008 to 2014 that shows the debt for 2009 and the projections for up to 2014. It shows the debt of 2009 at a little short of 4 billion. It is the 2008 debt that is plotted at 3.1 billion. The budget was prepared the 30th of November 2009 so the minister would have a close to exact figure of the 2009 debt.
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**Morris** » 2010-11-16 02:05

Your statement: "I think the AlP as a Govt like all other Human had their flaws, but all been said and done,they deserve some credit for what they had done for Antigua, Had they done horrible i would not have liked to see where Antigua would be today."

Well, they do deserve some credit for the debt we have today, 2.2 billion of it stem from the previous administration' s decision to default/ignore repaying loans. Regardless of party affiliation, that is reason for concern. If that is not horrible enough, then oh well.

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 02:02

fnspr why I more believe that the IMF figures are correct is they would have called for that audit you mentioned before dispensing moneys. Do you recall the high deficit in 2009 and the statement that they had to bring off the book loans from years ago to book? Also recall the jump in the wage bill which gives the impression that the government has been forced to declare the real amount. What is also clear is there seems to be no way for the government to just click a **on and get the total debt as of today. Do you notice how the best they could do is present contradictory information from a year ago. There is nothing about year to date interest. This is all a reminder that no one is really watching the shop.

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**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 02:01

I agree but I have to adjust to the environment. The people on here only see the wrongs people do so I had to say yes they (ALP) did wrongs and UPP also did wrongs but the situation they put us in was better.

If I outright praise ALP, I would not be listened to and my most important thing here is to have people listen so we can be better, and provide for the poor people and the entire United Islands.

You have to adjust to convey you information and as you mention ALP did bad things (some call horrible) so I am focusing on those to convey my information to the UPP supporters. Remember, you cannot teach everyone in the same manner, love determines that you consider each individual and provide for their specific needs. But i do totally agree with you in this manner.

I am not ALP nor am I UPP but I am for the people (striving to be Godly). yes the people was better under ALP, they had cheaper food and even some free ones.

**SHELLY G** » 2010-11-16 01:47

Although i am in agreement that the ALP should have done better in debt repayment,i will not be intimidated in joining with anyone who says that the alp did horrible, let us get real and look around Antigua, everything concrete and productive was done during those years, we have no natural resoures,we paid no PIT, we had no VAT, and yet we saw years of progress which no one can deny, I think the AlP as a Govt like all other Human had their flaws, but all been said and done,they deserve some credit for what they had done for Antigua, Had they done horrible i would not have liked to see where Antigua would be today,what has kept up afloat during this UPP era,is the fact that they met a strong foundation ,had they built on it,instead of trying to erase history,they would have done better.

**fnpsr** » 2010-11-16 01:46

We will never know who is right or wrong unless an independent audit is conducted and the findings made public. Therefore, I call for an audit.

Based upon my reticence to believe the government’s figures and their needed to paint a rosier picture, I would tend to have more credence in the Mr. Browne’s analysis. I am not saying it is correct, only that I would have more faith in it than that presented by the Hon. Lovell.

Finall y, I see a flaw in the IMF. They seem to take figures and reports submitted by the government at face value. I see no evidence that they do any independent verification of the information presented to them. I hope for all of us that I am wrong!

“If you can’t do the little stuff, how are you expected to do the more difficult stuff?”

**Maco** » 2010-11-16 01:45

Is it true that the Development Bank is broke as well, as a result of a hefty loan given to purchase a no good ferry?

**fnpsr** » 2010-11-16 01:43

I have been watching the debate with intrigue and have been reticent in joining the discussion. However, based on the response by the Hon. Minister, I thought it would be good to join the debate. I believe that the debate between the Hon. Minister and the Hon. MP is a healthy one. While I have always taken anything the Government says with a grain of salt, we now have a basis for comparison.

Wh at is troubling to me is that these two individuals are members of Parliament and they should know this information down to the penny (emphasis added). It would seem to me that every loan should have been debated in parliament, approved, recorded and made public. Additionally, the disbursements for the particular earmarks should have been properly recorded and an amortization schedule prepared showing the payments made. Had this been done there would be no doubt as to the amount of outstanding debt owed by the “Government of Antigua & Barbuda.”

**Maco** » 2010-11-16 01:41

Even if the Government figures are correct (i dont think they are) this Government has displayed gross incompetence has severely mismanaged this country. All that borrowing plus all those taxes. What a bunch of misfits. It pains my heart to see workers digging up what my tax dollars have helped to finance in st Johns and dumped. The fact of the matter is that they were told that this would be necessary. The end result is that some smiled to the bank while we have tears exiting. I cant take it no more. Time for them to go. right now.

**PLM** » 2010-11-16 01:27

My way of helping,

We don’t have any ghettos in Parham, thank you very much.

**Interesting** » 2010-11-16 01:14

Where is the Half Moon Bay Debt? Guess they decided not to include it because they don't plan on repaying it.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 01:07

Thanks for that I taught that was the 2.2 billion deficit in the budget? did they mention there was more debt by the ALP? Did they say anything about it is because of improper management of the Police Force and high crime rate why tourist stop coming hence the decline/falling tourism? buying of building for 3 times their worth in the current market etcetera wasting money?

Again, I am not ALP nor am I UPP but I am for the people. One government did Horrible (ALP) and another is doing Horrible (UPP) so there horrible is more horrible than our horrible.

One thing i remember, in hard times ALP gave free food and now is as you mention from the IMF report is the worse ever reported, where is the free food for the poor? are they doing one thing to decrease the impact of the " world wide economic crisis"?

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 00:57

Your statement just made the entire situation more, how should i put it? suspect. how can you put actual money borrowed in your budget if you do not have the money and it is only a projection? I remember when in college they never taught us that for the 3 years in high school doing accounting and the two years in college doing it? why put something as an asset or a deficit if you do not have it?

The other thing, "lard bird naga very obstinate" you do not have to talk and write like you are from the hood and ghetto, I would like you to be decent, whether you live their or don't live their it should not make you the way you are. And if a person like me who strives to be Godly and do what is best for the was on the ECSC then worrying about me wouldn't be in my mind, my priority would be your rights, defining the laws in the way they were intended. I will not give up on love, justice, and proper representation so leave do not say give it up already. I love love, don't you? liberty. acknowledgment.

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-16 00:44

In the words of Gaston Brown, “so what” is this some new talking points for the ALP, First the tribunal report and now a big song and dance about national debt? Something they never cared about when they were in power. Weather you believe the technicians who went to great lengths to explain the discrepancy in Browns cooking or not, the fact remains brown and his gang has no moral authority to be talking about national debt, none of the borrowings under the UPP can fail the smell test as so many of the borrowings under his government has.

**Antiguan** » 2010-11-16 00:43

IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE DAMAGE CONTROL??? NOT THIS TIME AROUND, JUST GIVE UP THE FIGHT,YOUR LIES AND DECEIT ARE TOO BLATANT, THIS DOCUMENT LACKS DEPTH,MAYBE THIS REVELATION WILL FINALLY LET YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH OFF THE ALP ABOUT THEIR ACCUMULATED DEBTS OF ALMOST 3 DECADES.

**Morris** » 2010-11-16 00:39

Here is something that is very troubling that I think some people are overlooking: was the higher figure of 3.57 billion presented to the IMF in an attemp to mislead them into approving our loan request? I am clueless as to why Lovell would put his credibility and integrity on the chopping block by now presenting figures contrary to what was presented to the IMF. It is either he lied then, or is lying now. If he is indeed lying then he can't, and should not, be trusted. It is impossible to return the bullet to the gun after it has already been fired.

**Eric** » 2010-11-16 00:34

OMG – We took a look at the website you quoted and we found this statement by the IMF:

"Context and Key issues. Antigua and Barbuda’s tourism-depende nt economy has been severely impacted
by the global economic and financial crisis. Falling tourism and FDI-related construction activities have
triggered the worst recession in decades and contributed to a sharp decline in government revenue. This
has aggravated an already unsustainable fiscal position resulting from longstanding fiscal imbalances and
accumulatio n of a large stock of arrears to domestic and external creditors".

OM G - You obviously forgot to let us about it. You of course recognize that the “Accumulation of a large stock of arrears of domestic and external creditors” referred to here, are the debts that the last ALP administration refused to pay. UPP had to pay it to save our good name because we love this country.

**tenman** » 2010-11-16 00:16

Eric you can have your opinion, but not your own facts. MP Lovell states the current national debt is 3.1 billion, the document provided today states it was 3.2 billion at the end of 2009. It then continues to contradict MP Lovell by listing the loans for this year of over 100 million. Eric the IMF states the debt at the end of 2009 was 3.57 billion. Will you now tell us that they are lying on the ministry of finance? Do you wish to suggest that the ALP hacked the IMF website? Clearly based on the IMF national debt figure, MP Browne is correct with his figures for debts incurred under the UPP.

..

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-16 00:13

If what you say is correct and the money was spend on us, the people, why are the figures different from what they gave the IMF. Please explain this financial expert? where are all the moral and ethical experts?

the law states 12 hours of voting but UPP says 5 is enough and it is substantial. So, being a logical man, I believe the figure they gave about the $800 million is the substantial enough for us figure (which they think is good enough for the people of Antigua and Barbuda, but not the real figure by law).

When will UPP put away substantial and give us all, the entire, of what we are guaranteed by law, promises, ethics, morality, humanity, politically etcetera?

**PLM** » 2010-11-16 00:08

My way of helping,

The numbers provided to the IMF or reported thru other outlets are not set in stone, and often are based on projections or estimates which may or may not be revised up or down. And by the way, you’re in no danger of being selected to sit on the ECSC, so just take a deep breath and let it go…..lard bird naga very obstinate…

**Eric** » 2010-11-15 23:57

I read the ALP bloggers with amazement – they are all so anxious to swallow the bait that Brown has thrown out for them – and on the other hand without any thought are willing to discount what the Finance Minister has published. Of course they are all financial experts and they know all the answers. Let me remind all of them that all monies raised and spent were spent for and behalf of Antigua and the people of Antigua – the money was spent within the economy of Antigua and help provide the very lively hood that we all have a right too. None of that money was used to propagate corrupt schemes as the IHI scheme that landed millions and millions of dollars of our money in the private Bank accounts in Miami, in the Bahamas and else ware. There are several civil charges pending in the High Court against Lester, Asot and others where there are some 100 injunctions attempting to stifle the Attorney from going to court to redeem the moneys for our Treasury. This is what we want to happen again?

**A Stitch in Time** » 2010-11-15 23:47

I doh care what anyone says. Every one is a liar, including ALP & UPP.

**my way of helping** » 2010-11-15 23:37

I have one question for the Government, which one is correct, the figures you gave the IMF or the figures you are giving us, the people? because of the pass and the way you treat us, the public, with no regard, no respect, no acknowledgement , well I believe the IMF was given the real figures but silly us, people of Antigua and Barbuda, who do not need 12 hours to vote (which the laws say we need) but 5 hours (which UPP say is all we need) most likely have been given the wrong figures.

What have we done to you so bad that you hate us this bad? is it because we had vote for ALP?

**PLM** » 2010-11-15 23:35

Fred,

The finance minister has provided the facts, and his numbers do add up! Your desperate shadow finance minister is pulling numbers out of thin air, including contingent liabilities to inflate his already dubious figures with surprise surprise no supporting documentation. Peppercorn Browne is selecting one or two items from various subheadings and telling us it’s not included in the official numbers without telling us what exactly is included, again Burnham sleight of hand.

**ANTIGUAN** » 2010-11-15 23:12

IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE DAMAGE CONTROL??? I DETECT A SENSE OF PANIC& DESPERATION IN THIS RESPONSE,ITS EMPTY AND CANNOT CONVINCE ANYONE THAT GASTON BROWNE IS LYNG.

HC » 2010-11-15 23:00

IS NOT COUNT DEY KARN COUNT,THEM JUST PLAIN LIE, just looking at the document ,it just look lie, PLM just shut your dam mouth,and be quite,you are always making a donkey of yourself.

**OMG!!** » 2010-11-15 22:56

There was ALP now UPP versions but if you want the truth simply go here http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2010/cr10279.pdf and get it.

**Dave** » 2010-11-15 22:41

PLM, look under Government gurarantted loans and you would be able to discern which statutory loans were incldued or excluded.

**Fred** » 2010-11-15 22:39

PLM, the UPP only included 108M of statutory corp debts under the item government guranteed debt. Browne has shown the other statutory debts that were excluded. Anyone who could count count, would have recognised this. Rheroric will not help here, U and the other UPP-ites need to come with hard facts to challenge Browne. Any credible response would say that the Perto Caribe 106M, The Airport 80M, the WIOC/APC 65M etc are not real.

**tenman** » 2010-11-15 22:36

Ruler the provided data is an insult. If we use the figures from the IMF 3.57 billion and then add the loans listed (90 million disbursed from the IMF 27 million policy based loan), you will see that the debt is over 3.6 billion. Why is the Half moon bay debt currently at around 87 million (65 million + 10.5 interest annually beginning july 2007) not included in this table? Does the government not get that its exclusion only gives fuel to those arguing that the government does not intend to pay the debt? If we were to include that figure and use the erroneous table provided in this article the national debt is now a little over 3.4 billion (3.2 + 90 million+ 27 million + 88 million ) . Ruler perhaps you need to come back home and offer the government your services.

..

**Fred** » 2010-11-15 22:23

Cool ruler why you and other UPP singers keep misinforming the people. The man spoke about contingent liabilities and undrawn comiitmentswhic h would only impact the national debt if or when drawn or materialise. he indicated that the debt could rise to 1.9 billion if these materialise. On the other hand he stated clearly that the Gov chalked a whopping 1.4 billion in new debts and provided the detail f very single debt incurred. What you should be concerned about is Lovell's deception and under-reporting ...seen?

**Morris** » 2010-11-15 22:21

What are you talking about, isn't 2+1=2? Only in Antigua. LOL!!!

**PLM** » 2010-11-15 22:16

The shadow finance minister is grasping at straws. Where is the evidence that the AUPA or PetroCarib loans are not included in Lovell’s figures for government guaranteed and Venezuela? Apparently, the ALP is now reduced to using the same flawed Guyanese logic that was soundly rejected by the ECSC in all aspects of their political gesticulations. Nuttin tal go so! Minister Lovell, keep dropping the hammer pan dem.

**tenman** » 2010-11-15 21:53

The government needs to contact the IMF and let them know that it now disputes the figures it provided to them during the 2010 consultation. The IMF document can easily be found at www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2010/cr10279.pdf with the information in the table on page 27 stating that the national debt at the end of 2009 was 3.57 billion. The table provided also contradicts MP Lovell because he publicly stated the national debt was currently 3.1 billion but the table here wrongly states it was 3.2 billion at the end of 2009. The figures themselves put a nail in his coffin where it talks about the 325 million borrowed from the IMF. Seems MP Lovell forgot to at least add the disbursed figure to the 3.2 billion stated in the table (making it at least 3.3 billion). Honestly who ever technician is aiding him in this exercise needs to be fired because they are making it look as if the finance minister cannot count.
..

**Cool Ruler** » 2010-11-15 21:46

Any morron would knew if I have a line of credit with a bank the full amount is not counted as bebt I owe only what I use. Similarity if I have a credit card my debt is not the card limit only what I use, for Brown to be using full approved amount in his calculations is nothing short of being disingenuous

**Antiguan Youth** » 2010-11-15 21:33

an amount minus the repayment shouldn't leave a figure we can follow? Anybody can use their calculator would not be able to follow these numbers...... Where s Gaston to hit that boy Lovell.

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