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**SteadyJ** » 2011-01-03 13:37

Your suggestion will work as well. The society has developed and moved away from the out door toilet, hence there are more septic tanks being built. If this practice continues that well lead to the contamination of our ground water sources. This is 2011, and we proper sewage facilities on the Island.

**Morris** » 2011-01-03 12:50

Perhaps they can adopt the practice where some of the sewer plants use recyclable energy by using the gas emitted by the waste to power the plant. This is being done at some sewer plants around the world, and it does not take power from the grid; however, the excess power that is produced can be sent to the grid. This could be a win win situation.

**steadyj** » 2011-01-03 06:56

A central sewage treatment facility (yes there is money in Sh*t) is needed in St. Johns to address this issue, and made mandatory for business and private homes to connect to it. If the government wants to do a public private arrangement I would fine with it. I am quite sure they could get some environmental grants available internationally , as the raw sewage is killing St. Johns harbor, also not to mention the stench over the city. The city would have to be dug up to lay down the sewer lines, and it would be very expensive project, but we have to start somewhere. Sewage treatment facilities have an insatiable appetite for electricity, so I suggest using wind turbines to generate the electricity locally at the site to run the facility, and pump the extra power back to APUA grid. http://www.njwind.com/project.html is good example.

**my way of helping** » 2011-01-03 05:43

From reading all my blogs, all you got from them, is me saying i do not want them to follow rules of law?
Morris, when the people clean the pond and the people, government, health inspectors, etcetera find it okay to have the car washers come back then i would say okay too. I was even looking at the it would not be of benefit if the government hire someone to just collect the daily fees for using the pond, all that collection would go into that person's salary and no income to the government. So, I thought it would be more beneficial as a social impact tool.

I know a few guys who were dirty and on drugs and they now look so good, and clean because they are washing cars at the pond. they were stealing, using drugs, begging money, now they are productive. If they get a new location and i would support they leave because of aesthetic issues for the city but if okay with the people, then let them stay.

**steadyj** » 2011-01-03 03:25

If test results showed that the country pond water contaminated, then why the health department did not immediately post signs, and shut down all car washing operations? Isn’t one of main jobs of government is to project the public? I must agree with all the bloggers who stated that the car washer should be prohibited from using that filthy water to wash cars. Seems to me that the country pond car washers want to operate their businesses with zero overhead, and on top of that they don’t even pay taxes? Get them out of there, and let open up legitimate, clean car washes.

**Morris** » 2011-01-03 02:09

Let me inform you that I am not myopic in my view and looking at things from a managerial standpoint. I am looking at this from a holistic standpoint as it relates to the overall health and aesthetics of the country. I make annual trips and daily calls to Antigua so I am not oblivious to what is going on or who the car washers are. I will even tell you that I grew up with some of those same car washers and understand their background. I will say again, that if they want to ply their trade that it is their responsibility to provide the necessary equipment and do so in a different location due to the contamination levels of the pond. FYI, all the supposedly "side effects" that you claim will result are already happening with them using the pond, so non-use will not be the reason for the increased crimes etc. Every legitimate business owner/operator in Antigua have to follow rules, but you think it is ok for these car washers not to follow any rules and just operate as they would like.

**PEACE** » 2011-01-02 19:43

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WATER AT COUNTRY BOND AND THE WATER THE PEOPLE OF RURAL (CEDAR GROVE) NORTH IS GETTING,RURAL NORTH IS GETTING WATER VIA PIPES.
THE REASONS GIVEN FOR THE POOR QUQLITY OF WATER CEDER GROVE IS GETTING ARE (1) THE PIPES ARE OLD AND NEED'S CHANGING.ONE CAN SEE THE HEAVY RUST IN THE WATER (2) THE WATER IS FLOWING DIRECT FROM THE DAM UNTREADTED TO THE AREA OF RURAL (CEDAR GROVE) NORTH.
PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY VERY HIGH WATER BILLS FOR THE VERY VERY POOR QUALITY OF WATER.AND DOWN THE ROAD IT IS ALSO A HEALTH RISK.

PLEASE IF MONIE'S COULD BE FOUND FOR HALF BUILT WALLS AND TOILET'S THAT CANNOT BE FOUND,PLEASE FIND THE MONEY TO FIX THE PIPES AND TREAT THE WATER.
AND THE WATER SHOULD NOT BE CUT OFF AS OFTEN AS IT IS BEING DON.

**my way of helping** » 2011-01-02 16:55

Most of these people would be in jail and in trouble if they did not have this outlet. Rent a pump for cheap and pump out the water, it will not cost no more than $500, then wash inside, public works stop the feces line into the pond. I see almost no money used, but i see huge social impact morris. Do you think there is only one side to an issue? think again, LOVE will bring everything to light. I know the car washers Morris, cut the bill in half but the people are dead.

Governme nt may pay $10,000. to do this but look at the what they avoided, Higher crime rate, spending millions to house and feed new prisoners, insurance skyrocket from larceny/theft etcetera, tourist even more afraid to visit because they will be victimize, less demands for drugs because they are busy making money and in the long run they may be weened off because they are busy working, less money at the hospital taking care of overdose and drug problems. Why do we only look at the surface? there are much deeper things in everything. It is like the car washers saying the pond is clean because the surface look clean but when you go deep into it, you see the core, the heart, the most important issue.

**my way of helping** » 2011-01-02 16:06

I am glad you too consider the workers at the pond not to be bums or criminals. Morris, I have heard people call some of the people their bums, with my own ears. I some of the people there I have observe the life they had and have. I am happy to see what they are doing now, maybe because you are not in Antigua to observe some of these people, you will not be able to appreciate this new route they are taking. I am happy.

No feces should be going to the public pond (it should be cleaned by the Government, it is a public issue). after cleaning, and the people decide, it is okay for car washers to use, and it would be safe, I am in support of it because I know, I know some of the people (some were convicted and some was/still on drugs), where some of the people came from and now what they are doing. There are more to life than money and being a manager (looking at money point of view only). This has social impact and it should be considered morris. I told you before stop that management thinking and have a more empathetic understanding of all point of views (management money, management money, sick and tired of hearing that).

**Morris** » 2011-01-02 14:42

I think you are missing the point and twisting the story to suit your ideology. First of all, the car washers are neither bums nor criminals. Secondly, how do you suggest they clean the pond like you alluded? Did you consider the cost of draining, filtering and steralizing the water, for what, for them to just sit there and wash cars, because, according to you, it is free water from God? Thirdly, they can socialize anywhere they desire to talk about their love of cars.

**my way of helping** » 2011-01-02 13:46

My point has nothing to do with welfare, it has everything to do with social impact. The men who are at the pond actually are some of the people who we considered as bums and may involve in criminal acts. I do think that, may be, they could pay for using the water and maintaining it health.

i am not saying they should use the pond (not aesthetic for the city) but if they, the people, find it okay, i think it has significant social impact because of who the car washers are. Not welfare, not hand out but having a significant social impact. Growing up, i use to like watching people gather together and wash their cars proudly and socialize.

The pond is a pond and the people are people (maybe they could use another pond but it is not welfare, it is more than welfare). It turns bums into entrepreneur, it turns criminals into business men, it turns unproductive mind into a social and friendly mind, they share ideas of cars, they make money legally and it flows through the economy and still get taxed.

**tenman** » 2011-01-02 12:37

my way of helping - Even in the bible when Jesus extended a helping hand to persons by healing them, they had to do some work before hand to show faith. It can't simply be about persons lying around waiting for government to come and save them.

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**tenman** » 2011-01-02 12:17

my way of helping I am all for charity and such but we must be careful that it does not lead to dependency. I think you posted that you currently live in the US look at the damage the welfare system has done to many folks especially African American. I think during that time Clinton was in office processes were put in place to help prevent it from fostering the dependency it did. In Antigua we have had an official welfare system where government provides for example jobs to persons who not even a requirement that they work. Some of these persons will be soon let go at the port. my way of helping, @WTF is correct, standards must be set. You cannot allow persons who do not contribute to the table when things are good, try to come and eat from eat when things are bad. The articles I have read have these car washers trying to be both wrong and strong. I

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**my way of helping** » 2011-01-02 10:43

Everything is hard for everybody so things must be hard for you too. not is not a good mentality to have, I am doing bad so you have too also. Please erase that type of mentally, not useful or Godly at all.

If they clean the pond and they may determine it is okay for people to use it and was their car, so be it. It is free water from God, it is everything you expect to make money from? How about Love, wouldn't love allow you to provide for the people who drop out of school and can do nothing else?

I do agree, they could pay tax or a fee for using the pond per day but your justification for people not using the pond is not people Loving and friendly. I am not making it so you should not too, wow wow. i guess one day I want to go an wash my own car at country pond i must pay another social security and medical benefits etcetera to use God's water that was caught in a pond? My people where is the love, not everything will speak money, it may speak less crime, less bums etc. look at who works at the pond

**Morris** » 2011-01-02 08:15

I don't get the point you are trying to make. When contamination accumulates over time in a stagnant body of water like Country Pond, the toxicity level will increase to the point where it becomes hazardous and ultimately lethal. We are currently just about at that critical stage. The bottom line is that whatever excuses that are being thrown about now about people use to use it before and nothing ever happened, is nothing short of being ignorant to the potential health threat.

**tenman** » 2011-01-02 07:48

W.T.F, needless to say, I agree with you

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**W.T.F.** » 2011-01-02 07:41

Country Pond has been deemed a site of toxicity and it should be restricted from further use ASAP. In the event it can ever be cleaned, it still should not return as a tax free car wash resource for illegal operating businesses or otherwise.

The debate seems to be lingering on now about the misfortune of the non-tax paying businesses that have operated there, rather fruitfully, for some time now. To suggest the current government should perhaps subsidize these operators seems unreasonable.

We should save our subsidies for law abiding, tax paying, legitimate businesses / residents who contribute to the system, not for rogue operators who contribute nothing to Medical Benefits, Social Security, etc. Times are tough on EVERYONE right now not just the car washers.

**tenman** » 2011-01-02 03:51

Beauty regarding whether the pond recently (I take it you mean within a year) got infested, the answer is I have no idea, all i know tests have now been done and its official. We can no longer pretend there is not a problem

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**my way of helping** » 2011-01-02 03:50

Eric, i can explain this to you. When a man has no other means of providing and it is all he knows, he will stick to it until thy kingdom come. Remember i teach on here to include everything before making a decision. I empathize with the car wash workers because it is all they know and will be very defensive when their food, money, livelihood is being taken from them without even minor consideration of or help or suggestion on how they can.

I agree they should stop but we must consider human behavior and obviously as we can read they are acting human (no one take away food from my family without provide help or ideas).

It is like telling and showing someone parties are not good for you because it divides the people and the party is not doing well for the people but because you love that party a lot, you get defensive and curse out anyone who simply speaks the truth. See, defensive when someone talk about all you know and love.

A government, well, my government would be very considerate and take everything into consideration. I know we can't do everything but i will try. i know i can never be perfect but i will try.

**tenman** » 2011-01-02 03:33

Eric perhaps you have forgotten my past posts, I too have an issue with the baby syndrome. I have stated my issue with certain social program eg. school meals and school uniform. I recall a lady spending a good ten minutes on ZDK via cell phone complaining that her child will starve because government decided not to offer school meals on the last week on school (school closed the Wednesday). Eric I like policies that enrich persons long term not political hand outs. Where we disagree about country pond is to me this issue is at the heart of the purpose of government because the effects of the issue identified could harm us all. Its either government step in or Citizens/reside nts form a mob and stop them. I am sure you would dislike the latter.
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**Eric** » 2011-01-02 02:04

Tenman – I don’t have anybody’s ear – However common sense tells me that the problem is being addressed and there will be action taken to correct the saturation. But quite apart from that, would you please explain to me why is it that we must treat our citizens as it they were babies? - We are advised by the government’s technicians that the water in Country Bond was testes (at some cost I suspect) and the water is found to be contaminated – why do we need someone to hold the hands of those who use the pond and lead them away. Where is their sense of responsibility, if not to the community but to themselves and family? What it appears to me is that they are so afraid that they will have to make an investment into their own business and like everyone else provide their own inventory (water) to make that business profitable. - They are afraid to lose the freebs.

**Beauty** » 2011-01-02 01:42

However, Tenman not to play down the issue but did Country Pond just get infected? How long has the school been there? I say this in reference to your statement about the children from the school nearby and if a child touches one of the car etc. etc. I mean this had to have happened before, nothing new. I am not advocating for it to continue but sometimes we tend to go over the top.

I remember when the fountain and lights were installed years ago 'The Voice' said on the airwaves that the water will get over to the students and give them ringworm. Did this happen and how come all of a sudden that would have happened? Politics!!!!! I believe this is what the washers are saying, they have been using the water for years and nothing is wrong with them, its Government duty to show them how the water can affect them and get them away from the pond.

**Beauty** » 2011-01-02 01:40

I do agree with all of you, they should be made to stop using the water, its not a choice anymore. Government need to do their job and protect the citizens and residents from this health hazard. Also, who are the crazy people still taking their vehicles there? I also dont get why these washers think they have a right to government's pond to make a living and pay no taxes, pay no bills for their businesses, this is nonsense. We live in a lawless place.

**JILL** » 2011-01-01 13:28

I think the Board of Health and the government should order the carwashers to stop washing the vehicles at that location immediately. The carwashers are NOT the ones to make the decision. First of all it's a health hazard to use the infected water, and secondly, take a look at the picture above; the country pond should be considered as an attraction with the fountains flowing. The picture with the people washing the cars, with rags ,buckets and vacuum cleaner on the side of the street depict an awful sight. When are we going to take pride in our country? Kick them out of that location NOW!!

**Buzzbomb** » 2011-01-01 09:29

Stopping car washing at Country Pond may be a good thought for the short term, but it is tantamount to asking your doctor to touch-up your xrays because you don't want to face an illness. Afterall, the runoff flows right smack dab through downtown exposing thousands of people daily and then continues on to further pollute St. John's harbour and our coastal waters.
We all know there is technology available to mitigate and arrest the polutant source(s) of this public health hazzard, but the lingering question remains; is there political will?
If our government is serious, they will give CBH the requisite resources and financing to solve the problem in the interest of public saftey.
Let's hope they don't decide on another paint job and fountain that sprays toxins into the air.

**tenman** » 2011-01-01 08:04

Eric I suspect you have the ear of some government decision makers please ask them to do one of the jobs they were elected to do ie protect citizens.Lets not wait until a disaster happens and then we proceed to waste money on inquires into who dropped the ball. I suspect Lionel Micheal reads these blogs. Sir issue whatever orders you must to get the police involved so that these use of that pond will cease. Morris you made some good further points, I hope and pray that those concerned take them to heart

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**my way of helping** » 2011-01-01 07:46

You have been saying some very great things, keep blogging please. Your name! but i love your blog. I just wanted to add one thing, this is a public safety issue, so yes, this situation should be handled by the Government. If the Government feels like providing the tools required to help the car washers continue their trade in this Hard economic time then they could probably charge a small fee per day to cover the cost of equipment and keeping the pond clean (this idea should be considered if scientist say the pond could be use for washing cars, after its cleaning).

We have not really gotten any help or tax break during the hard-times and LOVE is speaking to me told me to say, if the Government help these car wash workers, it would our first help during this hard economic time and it would be a great gesture.

I must say that the defiance and ignorance i heard from the mouth of the washers and patrons, had me a bit disappointed but we should know, it is not the rocket scientist, doctors, lawyers working there so yeah, the statements should not really be surprising.

**Morris** » 2011-01-01 07:08

Ignorance is a very dangerous disease and those car washers are infected. I just hope that they are stopped before they infect others. Rasta claims that the pond has been known to clean itself over time, I am not sure where he learned science, but I know that a stagnant body of water like Country Pond does not clean itself. Just because some sediments/conta minants settle to the bottom and cause the surface to change color does not mean the water is safe/clean.

The environmental impact is a whole lot bigger than anyone can imagine. It is not just the act of car washing that can spread diseases, but also the airborne/respir atory hazards posed to the nearby school, the surrounding community, and the rest of general public. I would suggest that sample studies be carried out to see if there is any correlation between the pond and any communicable diseases that may be reported to MSJMC or other local doctors' offices.

**Eric** » 2011-01-01 07:06

Tenman – This is getting to be a serious matter –I find myself agreeing with you again on this matter. These men using the pond water to wash cars seem to think that they have a God given right to use this venue for their personal gain – to start with the country pond is a national resource and they should be paying for the use of the water. Further they are dictating to the authorities that they will not stop using the water even after being told that it is unsafe SO TO DO. They are further demanding that the problem should be fixed so that they can continue making a livelihood – What has happened to us in Antigua, why have we loss that sense of personal responsibility – why must everything be provided to us on a silver platter?

**W.T.F.** » 2011-01-01 06:40

You've summized the situation perfectly.

It's time for the car washers to get organized, set up a legitimate business, operate it professionally, pay for the resorces they use, and submit their taxes and other benefit $$$'s into the system like the rest of us.

We should thank Rasta for his honesty and highlighting how lucrative the car wash business can be. They just lost most of the sympathy I had for their cause now having a better understanding of how much money they are making down there.

The pond wasn't designed to be a car wash to begin with, let alone a a place to facilitate 21 non- tax paying businesses. Now armed with the fact that the place is a living cesspool, these guys are endangering themselves, their families, and the rest of us with their behavior.

Shut the place down and enforce our public safety demands. This situation is worth posting a cop (or 2) down there during peak activity times at the least. And a $500 fine should be the minimal amount for the first offense.

If we turn a blind eye to this, we could lose a life down there. The place is now considered a public safety concern.

**Morris** » 2011-01-01 05:27

You guys are all saying things I've already said before. It is just up to the authorities to take the next step and issue the order to cease operations at the pond.

I find it rather strange that Rasta has the nerves to brag that they were making almost $500 a day during certain times, yet they don't pay taxes on their wages,SS, Medical Benefits, or pay for the water they use. However, in the same breath he is requesting (practically dictating if you ask me) that Mr. Michael comes up with a plan to preserve their livelihood. Since he makes that much money, I do not see a problem with him pooling his resources with the other 20 washers who probably makes a similar amount, and invest in a few tank and pump units, and buy their own water to continue plying their trade. He cannot have his cake and eat it too. I am not sure what the hell he is smoking, but whatever it is it has surely warped his thinking. Then again, perhaps it is all the ** he has been playing in.

**Think about it** » 2011-01-01 04:52

Who are the idiots that will continue to have them use this water to clean... Did I say clean their vehicles? Demand for the services at that location should have dried up overnight
It not just the car washers who are irresponsible idiots.

**Dig It** » 2011-01-01 03:30

I believe it's time we stop the ignorance, and take heed! I feel the pain of the economic impact on the Car Washers. However, I believe your health comes first over money! The government needs to close the operation down until the Pond is clean, and we can figure out where the problem is coming from, and fix it! If they don't want to take heed, then we need to have legislation to fine them!

**fnpsr** » 2011-01-01 03:24

I agree with Tenman! They should be stopped; but it appears that the inmates are running the institution!!

**who cant hear will feel** » 2011-01-01 02:56

leave them let them feel,they dont pay medical ,plus social and when they get sick they should be made to pay.taxes should be paid, the net should cover everyone

**tenman** » 2011-01-01 02:39

They must be stopped now. Yes provide them with alternatives but it should not be their choice anymore whether they can use that pond. There is a school right next to that pond, what will happen if a child touches one of those cars after they have been washed using the water from that pond? Imagine the child touching the car and then touching other children. Lets stop playing with fire now. Next priority a proper sewage system

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